http://www.jambands.com/features/2009/12/11/guster-ten-years-lost
Guster has come a long way since playing the Midnight Café coffee house in the Lewis Hall dormitory at Tufts University. Now five albums deep into its career, Guster is now wrapping up a tour that marks the ten year anniversary of the band’s Lost and Gone Forever release. Then it’s off to Nashville to lay down the tracks for an upcoming record.
I arrived early to my scheduled 3PM interview at New York’s Beacon Theatre before Guster’s Friday night sound check. The venue was almost completely silent, save for the efforts of crew members prepping for this evening’s merriments. I ventured behind the stage and rode the service elevator up to the third floor where I soon sat with lead singers Adam Gardner and Ryan Miller.
How’s the current Lost and Gone Forever tour going thus far? Starting to get tired as you near the end I assume?
RM: We had this big long break so I’m just tired from Thanksgiving. I drove from Baltimore last night. It’s just a real hard transition. It’s a lot easier when you’re in the zone playing shows. But now it’s like, “Fuck, we have to play again [haha].”
AG: Yeah, also this hasn’t been a long tour. It’s really a ‘detour’ more than a ‘tour, tour.’ I think we’re at that point where the first few shows are like ‘Oh my god this is so cool to do this!’ Well the first two shows are really like ‘This is really hard, holy shit, how are we going to get through these songs that we haven’t played consecutively for ten years?’ And then we reach the point where it’s like, alright this is really fun, I can just play and enjoy. And this is NEW YORK.
How has the turnout been throughout this tour? How is it being received by the Guster faithful?
RM: Well, we did two weeks and then took a couple weeks off. So those two weeks went really well, much better than I expected, actually. You know there’s something about playing this record and playing two sets. People seemed really psyched and it turned out great.
AG: Definitely, it’s awesome man. Every show has been sold out so you can’t really ask for more than that.
This entire tour has lied on the East Coast and includes a lot of sentimental venues that have been platforms of success throughout Guster’s history. However, why did you pick this specific route, which kick-offs in North Carolina and close out at the Beacon?
RM: I don’t really know. I think, with this tour especially with the Lost and Gone Forever angle, we didn’t want it to be too long. We knew it would sort of lose its specialness if we did a 40 day tour, so we figured that 10 shows would probably be the right amount. So we try to stop before it starts to get really far into the boredom part [haha].
And why only the East Coast?
RM: We just haven’t had our year together, just us. We’ve been doing a lot of last minute stuff because our record has been up in the air. If we had a year in advance to prepare, we probably would have tried to do some West Coast dates and some in the Midwest. But we scrapped together what we could and everything came out really well, so…
And there’s a real special connection between Guster and New York City around Thanksgiving weekend, is there not?
AG: We’ve played here at the Beacon. I’m not positive, it must have been two or three years ago right before they had done all the renovations that they’ve just completed. I think we were one of the last shows before they did all that. I just remember being like this is really cool; we have to come back here. And traditionally, yes, we have done the Thanksgiving thing in New York. We’ve done it a bunch.
Are you seeing a similar fan demographic? Have you found that many original Guster fans have come back for these anniversary shows?
RM: It’s hard to say. I mean, some of the crowd skews a little older than normal just because we are playing a ten year old record. They’re not 13, well some of them are, but it’s always been a Dazed and Confused scene. So it’s a college thing that we tend to cluster around. There are also high school kids and kids out of school, but it usually clusters around the college scene. I don’t really have my fingers on that so much though, so I’m not absolutely certain.
The album Lost and Gone Forever was produced by legendary producer Steve Lillywhite, who’s worked with reputable bands like Phish, U2, Dave Matthews Band…the list goes on forever. Would you ever consider teaming up with him again for another project?
RM: Yeah, he’s going to play bass with us tomorrow (Saturday the 28th) on a song. We’ve definitely been talking to him about finishing the record we’ve been working on for a while. He’s pretty much the only guy we’re speaking to. We’re just figuring out a way to make it work. It’s been really interesting getting back in there and hearing this record, and playing these songs, and figuring out what it is that people liked about it. It’s definitely interesting.
Do you credit him with a lot of the success that came from Lost and Gone Forever?
AG: For sure. Before that we made two records independently with varying success, just because we were young and didn’t have a big budget to work with. It was the first time that we made a record that accurately captured what we were doing live. We were one of those bands where people were like, “yes, you can buy their record but you really have to go to their show to understand what they’re about.” I feel like Lost and Gone Forever was the album where the feelings were mutual that the record’s good too. He did a great job of capturing that, especially when I think of where we were as a band musically. I think he really elevated it. He did more than just take a snapshot of where we were he really elevated it.
This album was released 1999 and featured guests Page McConnell and Karl Denson on tracks. How did those collaborations materialize?
RM: Page was through Lillywhite because he’d worked with him on a Phish record. Karl…hmm. I don’t remember exactly how Karl came. I mean, he was doing his Tiny Universe thing and maybe he’s still be doing it, but it was going on then. So he was kind of the go-to-guy…
And he’s badass as hell…
RM: Yeah, he was awesome. It was sort of a reaching out process—seeing who we can get.
For many years you guys have dismissed the jamband label, but this year you played at Gathering of the Vibes and Rothbury. Have you finally washed that guard away, or have the jam and indie scenes sort of morphed together as one?
AG: You know, I don’t think it was ever a guard. I just think that it wasn’t accurate. I think that label became about in the beginning because we had a live following before we had a label or anything like that. We had no radio play so there was no explanation for why we were bringing people out to shows. People thought, “Oh, they must be one of those jambands that everyone goes to because that’s where they can go and do whatever.” And that just wasn’t accurate, even though of course we were a grassroots touring band. We’ve played the Wetlands and we play all those clubs, so I wouldn’t say we were fighting necessarily against the label. We just didn’t think it was accurate. If anything, though, we were nervous about it because none of us are particularly good at jamming [laughs].
As in not good musicians?
AG: No as in we’re songwriters. We write 3 1/2 minute pop songs, and we don’t really stretch out our songs. But I think with bands like the Flaming Lips and a couple other acts that embrace the jam scene, they cut the path where we are able to play as a non-jamband to a jamband audience. What’s cool about the whole jam scene is that people go there to listen to the music. They’re all real music lovers. We’ve always been excited and never been afraid to play in front of a jam audience, even though we’re not particularly proud of our skills as players. I hope most folks in the jam world can get into what we’re doing. At first we were surprised and then we realized that it made sense. So when there are opportunities to play Vibes and festivals like those we definitely try because it’s always a very warm and welcoming audience that will spread the word if they like you. It’s a great audience to plug into.
Ryan, do you hold the same sentiment about submitting into the jam scene
RM: [laughs] Well, no. I mean, I love playing those festivals. Those specifically, well Vibes, which was probably the most jamband friendly thing we’ve done. Rothbury had Broken Social Scene and definitely a few indie-rock bands. To talk about what Adam said and about the merging of the scenes, Bonnaroo sort of blew the whole thing open a long time ago. It brought together all these these touring bands from different genres and that’s what independent music is. The Beasties and all that stuff perform together now. As far as how we fit into it, I mean I love playing those types of festivals. Gathering of the Vibes was so interesting to me because we really didn’t have a huge contingent that was there for us. The most rewarding times for me are when we don’t really have anyone there for us. You can sense it and you can see that you’re winning people over. It’s like you’re totally doing it on your own merits. There’s no bullshit, there’s no hype, it’s just you playing and you’re either going to win or you’re not based on your performance. I also agree with what Adam said about the jamband crowd being a lot more into the music. Not only that, I feel that they are even more open to allowing new sounds and styles in. Rather than immediately hearing something, judging it and then expelling it forever.
RM: Yes, I think playing those festivals keeps you and makes you much more aware of your dynamics. I do think people are much more into the music at these shows. It’s less ‘sceney,’ I mean it could be as ‘sceney’ for sure, but also some of the slots that we got at least I could sense that when we were doing something right, it would go really right. And if something wasn’t appropriate, it just wasn’t going to happen. It’s like hitting your head against the wall [laughs]. So it was cool, it was very revealing. I think I said this year’s ago, that I’ll play the moe.down, you know what I mean? I’ll play it all. If there are music fans out there then there’s enough of a crossover because it’s similar to what a lot of the real godfathers of the scene have done. I mean the Dead, they jammed, but they wrote great songs. And I think we strive to be great song writers too. So there’s enough of an overlap.
Last spring you guys recorded a session in a New York studio. Is that the material for the upcoming album you speak of being produced in Nashville?
RM: Yea, it’s an album that we’ve been working on since last year. We started in December [of 2008], and we’ve just hit a couple bumps. Then we were touring and such. I guess we got a little lost in this one, and we’re finally finding our way out of it. So next week is the official gathering. We got our shit together.
How are the collaborative efforts in Guster when creating an album? Is everything group consensus lyrically, musically, etc?
AG: Definitely lyrically it’s mostly on Ryan. Brian will do some lyrical stuff, as will Joe occasionally. I try to stay the hell away from it…lyrics wise [laughs]. Musically we all come together on stuff, and it all goes through this really laborious process involving all of us. Basically it’s a consensus process. Sometimes a song can literally come out of thin air where someone starts a bass line or a drum groove and it turns into a song. Or someone brings in a melody idea. Some stuff is more flushed out by one of us. Other things just get completely thrown out to everybody right there on the spot. But all the songs, no matter how they originate, go through this consensus process. It’s a difficult thing to do, but at the end of the day we end up with music that we are proud of and feel ownership of.
And now that you’ve revisited Lost and Gone Forever, have there been any thoughts of going over any of your previous albums and reworking them?
AG: I don’t know. We’ll have to see. You know the concept of doing an anniversary album tour happened when Parachute turned ten. And we decided that we didn’t like that record enough to do it [haha]. That would be painful for us. So we didn’t, but we liked the concept. And then when it came to Lost and Gone Forever we felt that this made sense, this seems to be where a lot of our fans meet in the middle; some of the old schooler’s that have been here since the beginning and people that are newer to the party can all agree on that record. Every record we do we try to make pretty different and there’s definitely been a progression. This record seems like one that the old school and the new school can agree on.
RM: Yeah, I don’t know if we’d ever revisit another record. Like Adam said, this record was special in the sense that it was our first record that we really felt like we could get behind. Our first record was just sort of us not knowing what we were doing. It doesn’t really hold up as well. And our second record really, it’s not great in our opinion. Lost and Gone Forever for a lot of people is when they discovered the band. And I feel before that we were sort of known as a live band, ‘you know they don’t make great records but they’re a great live band.’ And so from that point on I felt like alright we make cool records and put on a good show. It’s funny. Our fan base is not unilateral, and it’s not like with some bands that everyone loves this one record and the rest are whatever. They’re definitely a lot of people who didn’t really get into our band until our last record or until Keep It Together. I feel after Lost and Gone Forever there’s a real distinct change in the direction in the band…
Like what per se?
RM: In terms of Brian’s stuff on percussion and that we all learned how to play bass. We almost completely hanged the way we approach music. So, I don’t know, I mean I don’t know that there would be the same enthusiasm to do another record live like this. Not so much that it was our best record, but it was a seminal record. It was really a breakthrough. So, I’m interested because I felt like this album on this tour has held up pretty well for the most part. We can play these 11 songs and be like, it feels like it’s a set, and I was really worried that after the novelty wore off that we were going to hit these lows. If it’s a shitty song and you have to play it every night in slot 7, it’s gonna hurt. But really it’s held up pretty well, which I’m excited about. Every night I wonder if we played Keep It Together where the lows would be and where the highs would be. But we’ve been playing a lot of these songs, with the exception of 2-3 songs on Lost and Gone Forever, all of them are on rotation of the songs we play so there’s nothing crazy radical about what we’re doing.
And doing an album front-to-back live is incredible in my opinion. I mean, when I saw Bruce in Jersey, he used the same approach and it blew my mind. I’m not sure if all fans are like that though.
RM: As a fan I had heard about bands doing this, starting with Van Morrison doing Astral Weeks a year and a half ago. And that’s my favorite record of all time. When he came to New York I was the first one in-line. It was both the best and totally disappointingly awesome [laughs] because it’s a 40 year old album. The whole concept of this to do an album, it’s a total bandwagon thing and everyone’s doing it. We certainly aren’t innovators on this front. but it’s a cool thing for fans indeed.
Well the idea of going completely through an album live is particularly amazing because it seems in this day and age people are also forgetting about the concept of an album.
RM: Well, the music business is changing, and how they monetize music as well. I can get behind it; I can pretty much even get behind giving away our music for free. I steal music and I get all that and I understand the trend, but the one thing that sort of bums me out is what you said, that the album is being lost in this. The fact that there’s a whole generation of people growing up that have never bought an album doesn’t depress me as much as the fact that there’s a whole generation that can’t get the concept of an album anymore. It’s like playlist, and this song, and this song. And I think celebrating an album format is something really special. It is a complete thought in the way you sequence an album. It’s the only time in the whole sort of move forward I feel like a grandpa. I get vinyl and all that but I don’t fetishize all that stuff, but I still fetish albums. Not all the time, I listen to my iTunes on shuffle every day, but it’s cool; the album as a unit to come out and be like ‘this is an album, this is a snapshot of where we were in a point of time, this is what we’ve crafted.’ I think that it’s really a cool document and something that’s worth fighting for. So the fact that we’re sort of in this day and age and still have people listening to the album of our band is amazing. I hope people still make records and not just singles.
It got depressing in the early part of this decade, but I am seeing a sort of revival in a positive direction. I mean, I’d like to believe this…
RM: Yeah, I don’t think it’s as bad as I’m making it out to be. Now just due to the pure ambiguity of music and how music is disseminated for now, our tastemakers like Pitchfork and our top ten lists every year are still talking about albums. So really the guiding hands are still consuming music in this way. Promotional cycles are built around album releases and things like that. So it’s not completely gone, but then people will cherry pick a few songs and forget about the album, of course. You know, whatever… it’s sort of what we’ve been doing forever. I mean Steve Miller Band? I don’t know that dudes albums but I know his greatest hits really well [haha].
The band is going on almost 20 years. Where do you feel Guster would be today if the band had formed in the modern indie rock era?
AG: If we were just starting recently?
Yeah, like ten years ago when the indie scene began to take full charge.
AG: There’s so much more now. I mean it’s amazing when I think about what we had to deal with. I remember us sitting around, there was no email really, I mean there was but not in the real way. It was for communicating with your friends who went abroad. That was kind of it. So the whole reaching people and fans online that didn’t happen. So we would sit there and write out postcards and pay for postage. We would have label sticking parties where we would all sit around when we all lived together. We would bring all our friends over, buy pizza and beer and stick some labels on all these postcards we had to send out to our fans. It was expensive, it was time consuming. Now it’s like send out an email, blast a tweet from your phone and you’re done.
Since you guys have been together for 20 years, is there any desire to go solo and participate in other projects? I know Adam does the Reverb thing…
RM: I mean Joe’s made a solo record, and I think he’s kinda working on another one. As we get older with the kids thing we can see changes. Adam’s Reverb thing alone is an 80 hour week job whether he’s on the road or not which is amazing and crazy. Not only that, he can quit Guster tomorrow and still work harder than he’s ever worked in his life, so he’s all set up. And Joe built up a studio in his house in Nashville so he’s producing bands, writing with other people, making his own records. I wrote a movie and scored it last year with my buddy, and I’m really sort of interested in doing more stuff like that. Even now as we’re writing this record, I’m really interested in doing a lot of stuff and finding a lot of ways of doing it. As much as there’s bullshit, Guster’s still our best chance for achieving all the things we want. I could shit in the woods and no one would know, it doesn’t mean anything. Ryan Miller isn’t going to sell thousands of albums. So I would much rather have my creative energy go towards the band at this point. It’s definitely a situation where the sum is greater than its parts. There wouldn’t be four dudes having the impact that we have now. I think it’s a real easy situation and years of hard work giving us the breathing room to take time to make albums. We know that there are going to be people that will always be interested in our music.
What about you Adam? Besides the Reverb gig do you have any solo plans?
AG: You know I had an opportunity to do something sorta solo. It was just this fun idea that I did a couple years ago with Dave Shneider from the Zambonis. They were opening up for Guster. and we were talking about being Jewish. It was actually spring time; I have no idea why we were talking about holiday music and Hanukkah. We thought, “man, there’s all these great Christmas songs but why aren’t there any great Hanukkah songs?” So he and I wrote the album, Hanukkah Rocks and the bands called The LeeVees. It’s one of those things; it’s not something that we took seriously at all. It was more like, “Let’s have fun with this.” So we wrote the songs in a week when we were on tour together. We started crunching numbers and saw that, shit if we just sold 2,000 of these that’d be fine. But then Warner picked it up. It didn’t sell crazy amounts but it’s a nice thing that happens every year. That Fox show, Cleveland just licensed a song from us. There’s this other gig, this isn’t really a solo project either, but it’s fun to play with another band sometimes. There’s this ski band that I’m in [laughs]. It was based around this Warren Miller movie. So it’s me, Stefan from Dave Matthews, Ed from Barenaked Ladies, Dee Snider from Twisted Sister, Eric the drummer from N.E.R.D. and then Jason Biggs on cowbell.
Wow, what a collaboration.
AG: [laughs] It’s just this random assortment of dudes. It’s a cover band, a bunch of us fucking around. The most fun ski cover band you’ve ever seen! Every year we do that, we’ll get together and ski for a week someplace and play a gig. Yukon Kornelius is the name of that band.
I know during a lot of your live performances there is frequent crowd participation.
How did that come about? Was it promoted by the group or did the fans truck their way into doing it?
RM: It’s very organic. I don’t know that it happens all the time. There hasn’t been a ritual like that that’s come up in the last couple albums. I don’t know it can happen at any time. It speaks to the dialogue of what goes on with our fans. We are very much plugged into how people are receiving stuff, and we sort of feed off of that and go back and forth. There’s something in that continuum that’s sort of powerful and interesting.
I see that the band has toured internationally. I know, from my own experience, that I grew up with Guster and grew to love them as they matured musically with me. How are you accepted in Europe being that you are one of those bands whose fans grew with you as you’ve progressed through the years?
AG: We don’t go there that much, actually. To be honest we’ve been there rarely. It’s expensive. We’ve gotten used to a certain set up here. So it’s hard for us to go to Europe because a) it’s expensive and b) there hasn’t been a lot of support from the label. We had these amazing opportunities a few years ago to play Australia with Ben Folds and John Mayer… Maroon 5 was an offer but we didn’t have the tour support as the time. So we did some shows in England which went great, but you have to keep the momentum going and we just haven’t done that. So we have a lot going on in the states. We’ll go up to Canada here and there where it makes sense like Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver, but that’s it. We’re not going to Saskatoon or anything.
What else besides the upcoming record do you guys plan on doing in the near future? Will the habitual touring continue?
AG: As long as people still give a shit about us and want to see us play music and hear our stuff I really don’t see any end to it. Like you said, it’s almost been 20 years now so I think we’re all really happy to be making music still and feel that our best ideas are ahead of us. We still have a lot more to create together. We’ll finish this record, we’ll put it out, we’ll tour on it and make another record put it out and tour on it. I don’t really see it ending. It’s funny, when we first started I’d be like well, you know, let’s give it two years and see how it goes. And I would say it almost every two years, oh two more years, you know I’m happy but you never know. At this point I just don’t see this really ending, but maybe that’s when it will finally stop…
Wednesday, December 9, 2009
Interview with J. Tillman (NYCTaper)
http://www.nyctaper.com/?p=2136
Shortly after J. Tillman performed at Bell House in Brooklyn, a concert recorded by nyctaper, the writer Jarrod Dicker interviewed Josh for the site. This is the third installment of Jarrod’s interview series for NYCTaper.
Josh Tillman doesn’t really listen to that much music. His creative influences span beyond any restrictive constraints within a specific artistic genre and thus produce a product dissimilar to a lot of the music throughout the scene today. However, for someone who doesn’t listen to music, he sure as hell produces a lot of it.
Year in the Kingdom released on September 22nd and marks the seventh studio album written by Tillman since 2005. Not only that, this is his second album released this year following the January release of Vacilando Territory Blues. J Tillman is a music making factory and has no intentions of slowing down anytime soon. “I’m already writing another album,” he explains to me. “I’ve been working on a lot of songs for that.”
So what else is there to know about the mysterious Fleet Fox? Jarrod Dicker spoke to J about the fan reception of the new album, the recent tour and the philosophies and motives that propel the man behind the beard to continue to create beautiful music.
Meet J Tillman…
Jarrod Dicker: Hey Josh, Jarrod Dicker here.
Josh Tillman: How’s it going man?
JD: Good Good
JT: Nice
JD: I’m just going to get right into it if you’re cool with that.
JT: Cool
JD: How has the audience reception been so far on tour performing the songs from Year in the Kingdom?
JT: Sometimes it goes over really well and sometimes there’s a bit of confusion. I think, with a good show, there’s usually a potent combination of the two. The live arrangements are so drastically different at times than the album versions aesthetically. But when it works it works really really well. I’ve been overall pleased with it.
JD: Where did the inspiration draw from to immediately create another record after the release of Vacilando Territory Blues in January?
JT: I think it’s just in line with the writing cycle that I’ve been doing. I’ve kind of been putting out albums at that pace for a few years now. Really for me, it just feels like a natural pace or cycle. It didn’t really feel like a novelty. It was really the pace that I’ve kept. I think it’s really as simple as it’s what I love to do. It’s not like I tour and do promotional stuff at a volume that prevents me from recording as often as I’d like. It’s not like I’m going to make an album and then go on tour for a year and a half straight or anything. I didn’t even tour behind the last record.
JD: I’ve noticed and read that your voice sounds different on this record than the previous six. Was this due to a different recording style or is it meant to translate a different feeling/tone unlike your prior releases?
JT: My voice has changed. I’m a pretty slow learn. We definitely used a different production style on this record as far as close mic’ing everything and going for more pure tones. That was something that was an interesting prospect to me. Just the process of learning what you can and can’t do with your voice and trying different deliveries. I never really knew how to sing properly and you get a sense of that on my first few records. But yea, it’s a work in progress.
JD: Cool… on this album you play most of the instruments on the tracks. What is your live performance set up like? Do you include many band members? And do you also lug around the many instruments used on the album like the Hammered Dulcimer, Banjo, Recorder, etc?
JT: No, we kind of transposed all of those things. We do have a bunch a symbols, a gong and other stuff. But for the most part I really just kind of transposed all the arrangements into the parameters and the instruments that my friends play. I’ve never really been too interested in recreating an album exactly as it is into the live setting. I like the freedom of being able to just use the live show as an opportunity to more so deconstruct what’s going on in the album than to recreate it, you know?
JD: Definitely and that seems to make for a more exciting and innovative feel in the live setting. And now since you’ve participated in both solo work and a group (Fleet Foxes), do you favor leaning in one direction over another?
JT: They both serve very different purposes. My role is so drastically different in each one that they aren’t even comparable in my mind. I couldn’t really say. I enjoy doing both for very different reasons.
JD: What mindset do you have when you enter the studio? It seems that your albums are very artistic and visual, taking on more than just a familiar melodic structure.
JT: Yea. You can’t really do anything creative without a source of inspiration. Do you mean…
JD: I’ll rephrase. For this specific record and set of songs are they just a group of songs you assembled together or were they meant for the album because they all share an common theme?
JT: Right…Right…Yes the songs all sprang out in one kind of condensed period of time. It wasn’t like I just had a bunch of songs lying around. I think the songs serve; well to me the album is a very singular thing. The songs really only exist in concert with each other. I think the songs are representative of something other than just myself and the fact that I write songs. I don’t think that was the reason they came into existence.
JD: And now I think your brother’s band is backing you on this tour. Do you enjoy collaborating with your brother Zach and how did this particular touring marriage materialize?
JT: We’ve toured together in Europe a few times now and there’s really just nobody else I’d rather do it with. I had to call his manager and get clearance from his booking agent and our promotional firms thought that it would be a good cross synergy situation to have us opening for each other. And just to get cross marketing going on and cross branding for both of our brands. [laughs] Nah I’m just kidding…
JD: Damn I was just thinking, “What the fuck these guys are brothers?”
JT: Yea it was just like the most natural thing in the world, a very natural situation and organic scenario.
JD: You made an album, Long May You Run and I know that the Fleet Foxes have played with Neil Young. On top of that, many reviewers compare your sound to that of the Laurel Canyon 60’s crowd. What does Neil mean to you and is he your BIGGEST inspiration musically?
JT: Yea I think as far as a musical influence for sure. A lot of my influences exist outside the realm of music. I don’t really listen to THAT much music. I have a few things that I like and Neil Young is one of them. But even with him it’s more of a philosophical influence. Just the way he conducts himself and his creative integrity; the narrative art that exists in his albums. All of those facts have been a big influence on me. Certain things like putting out two albums in one year, etc, that idea of, ‘Well if that’s what you feel like doing, do it.’ There’s so much bullshit that you can allow to be a factor in your decision making process and the way that he has never let that contaminate what he does artistically has always been a big influence on me.
JD: Your music, to me, brings a sort of minstrel 1700’s quality to it that I find incredibly unique. Where does the inspiration come from to incorporate harmonies and strings to your music?
JT: I’m not sure if I view it in that way. There’s an influence in all modern music within the 12th century troubadours when people started writing ballads about earthly love and unrequited love; using music as a way of expressing romantic feeling. That’s kind of a pretty vital mean in the development of modern music. But I don’t feel any kinship musically to 17th and 18th century times. Definitely some of the schools of thought from the 17th and 18th century are an influence on me, like Decartes…but not musically.
JD: You grew up in a religious household that, I’m sure, barred particular music from entering the housing gates. How were you able to access the music that led you to want to lead a life as a musician?
JT: Hmmm…When you’re a kid you listen to music in such a different way. I don’t know if it’s all that important; what you’re listening to as a kid. It’s all kind of the same. Granted there’s some stuff I DID NOT like as a kid but I fell in love with music nonetheless. When you’re a kid it doesn’t matter how cool or artistically viable the music that you’re listening to is. You either fall in love with music or you don’t. Some people grow up around cool music and much can be made of that if you want it to. But I know for myself, I came into the music that I listen to now in my adult life like anybody else does, regardless of what you grow up around. I mean there’s not really much of interest there that I can speak to. I fell in love with music that probably wasn’t that cool or great to me as a child.
JD: What should we expect from J. Tillman going into the New Year?
JT: I’m going to make another album. I’ve been writing a lot for that, kind of more of the same. Slogging it out and shoveling dirt.
JD: Best of luck with that. Thanks so much for your time Josh.
JT: No problem
JD: Adios
JT: Thanks for your time man
Shortly after J. Tillman performed at Bell House in Brooklyn, a concert recorded by nyctaper, the writer Jarrod Dicker interviewed Josh for the site. This is the third installment of Jarrod’s interview series for NYCTaper.
Josh Tillman doesn’t really listen to that much music. His creative influences span beyond any restrictive constraints within a specific artistic genre and thus produce a product dissimilar to a lot of the music throughout the scene today. However, for someone who doesn’t listen to music, he sure as hell produces a lot of it.
Year in the Kingdom released on September 22nd and marks the seventh studio album written by Tillman since 2005. Not only that, this is his second album released this year following the January release of Vacilando Territory Blues. J Tillman is a music making factory and has no intentions of slowing down anytime soon. “I’m already writing another album,” he explains to me. “I’ve been working on a lot of songs for that.”
So what else is there to know about the mysterious Fleet Fox? Jarrod Dicker spoke to J about the fan reception of the new album, the recent tour and the philosophies and motives that propel the man behind the beard to continue to create beautiful music.
Meet J Tillman…
Jarrod Dicker: Hey Josh, Jarrod Dicker here.
Josh Tillman: How’s it going man?
JD: Good Good
JT: Nice
JD: I’m just going to get right into it if you’re cool with that.
JT: Cool
JD: How has the audience reception been so far on tour performing the songs from Year in the Kingdom?
JT: Sometimes it goes over really well and sometimes there’s a bit of confusion. I think, with a good show, there’s usually a potent combination of the two. The live arrangements are so drastically different at times than the album versions aesthetically. But when it works it works really really well. I’ve been overall pleased with it.
JD: Where did the inspiration draw from to immediately create another record after the release of Vacilando Territory Blues in January?
JT: I think it’s just in line with the writing cycle that I’ve been doing. I’ve kind of been putting out albums at that pace for a few years now. Really for me, it just feels like a natural pace or cycle. It didn’t really feel like a novelty. It was really the pace that I’ve kept. I think it’s really as simple as it’s what I love to do. It’s not like I tour and do promotional stuff at a volume that prevents me from recording as often as I’d like. It’s not like I’m going to make an album and then go on tour for a year and a half straight or anything. I didn’t even tour behind the last record.
JD: I’ve noticed and read that your voice sounds different on this record than the previous six. Was this due to a different recording style or is it meant to translate a different feeling/tone unlike your prior releases?
JT: My voice has changed. I’m a pretty slow learn. We definitely used a different production style on this record as far as close mic’ing everything and going for more pure tones. That was something that was an interesting prospect to me. Just the process of learning what you can and can’t do with your voice and trying different deliveries. I never really knew how to sing properly and you get a sense of that on my first few records. But yea, it’s a work in progress.
JD: Cool… on this album you play most of the instruments on the tracks. What is your live performance set up like? Do you include many band members? And do you also lug around the many instruments used on the album like the Hammered Dulcimer, Banjo, Recorder, etc?
JT: No, we kind of transposed all of those things. We do have a bunch a symbols, a gong and other stuff. But for the most part I really just kind of transposed all the arrangements into the parameters and the instruments that my friends play. I’ve never really been too interested in recreating an album exactly as it is into the live setting. I like the freedom of being able to just use the live show as an opportunity to more so deconstruct what’s going on in the album than to recreate it, you know?
JD: Definitely and that seems to make for a more exciting and innovative feel in the live setting. And now since you’ve participated in both solo work and a group (Fleet Foxes), do you favor leaning in one direction over another?
JT: They both serve very different purposes. My role is so drastically different in each one that they aren’t even comparable in my mind. I couldn’t really say. I enjoy doing both for very different reasons.
JD: What mindset do you have when you enter the studio? It seems that your albums are very artistic and visual, taking on more than just a familiar melodic structure.
JT: Yea. You can’t really do anything creative without a source of inspiration. Do you mean…
JD: I’ll rephrase. For this specific record and set of songs are they just a group of songs you assembled together or were they meant for the album because they all share an common theme?
JT: Right…Right…Yes the songs all sprang out in one kind of condensed period of time. It wasn’t like I just had a bunch of songs lying around. I think the songs serve; well to me the album is a very singular thing. The songs really only exist in concert with each other. I think the songs are representative of something other than just myself and the fact that I write songs. I don’t think that was the reason they came into existence.
JD: And now I think your brother’s band is backing you on this tour. Do you enjoy collaborating with your brother Zach and how did this particular touring marriage materialize?
JT: We’ve toured together in Europe a few times now and there’s really just nobody else I’d rather do it with. I had to call his manager and get clearance from his booking agent and our promotional firms thought that it would be a good cross synergy situation to have us opening for each other. And just to get cross marketing going on and cross branding for both of our brands. [laughs] Nah I’m just kidding…
JD: Damn I was just thinking, “What the fuck these guys are brothers?”
JT: Yea it was just like the most natural thing in the world, a very natural situation and organic scenario.
JD: You made an album, Long May You Run and I know that the Fleet Foxes have played with Neil Young. On top of that, many reviewers compare your sound to that of the Laurel Canyon 60’s crowd. What does Neil mean to you and is he your BIGGEST inspiration musically?
JT: Yea I think as far as a musical influence for sure. A lot of my influences exist outside the realm of music. I don’t really listen to THAT much music. I have a few things that I like and Neil Young is one of them. But even with him it’s more of a philosophical influence. Just the way he conducts himself and his creative integrity; the narrative art that exists in his albums. All of those facts have been a big influence on me. Certain things like putting out two albums in one year, etc, that idea of, ‘Well if that’s what you feel like doing, do it.’ There’s so much bullshit that you can allow to be a factor in your decision making process and the way that he has never let that contaminate what he does artistically has always been a big influence on me.
JD: Your music, to me, brings a sort of minstrel 1700’s quality to it that I find incredibly unique. Where does the inspiration come from to incorporate harmonies and strings to your music?
JT: I’m not sure if I view it in that way. There’s an influence in all modern music within the 12th century troubadours when people started writing ballads about earthly love and unrequited love; using music as a way of expressing romantic feeling. That’s kind of a pretty vital mean in the development of modern music. But I don’t feel any kinship musically to 17th and 18th century times. Definitely some of the schools of thought from the 17th and 18th century are an influence on me, like Decartes…but not musically.
JD: You grew up in a religious household that, I’m sure, barred particular music from entering the housing gates. How were you able to access the music that led you to want to lead a life as a musician?
JT: Hmmm…When you’re a kid you listen to music in such a different way. I don’t know if it’s all that important; what you’re listening to as a kid. It’s all kind of the same. Granted there’s some stuff I DID NOT like as a kid but I fell in love with music nonetheless. When you’re a kid it doesn’t matter how cool or artistically viable the music that you’re listening to is. You either fall in love with music or you don’t. Some people grow up around cool music and much can be made of that if you want it to. But I know for myself, I came into the music that I listen to now in my adult life like anybody else does, regardless of what you grow up around. I mean there’s not really much of interest there that I can speak to. I fell in love with music that probably wasn’t that cool or great to me as a child.
JD: What should we expect from J. Tillman going into the New Year?
JT: I’m going to make another album. I’ve been writing a lot for that, kind of more of the same. Slogging it out and shoveling dirt.
JD: Best of luck with that. Thanks so much for your time Josh.
JT: No problem
JD: Adios
JT: Thanks for your time man
Interview with Pun Plamondon (StayThirsty)
http://www.staythirstymedia.com/200912-040/html/200912-pun-plamondon-int.html
This is the second interview in a series entitled, “The White Panther Interviews.” The first one was with John Sinclair. This month’s is with White Panther Party co-founding member Larry “Pun” Plamondon.
After my conversation with John Sinclair, I was left hankering for a deeper understanding of the White Panther Party (WPP) and many of the radicals who participated actively to spark its creation. So I did some investigation to find another founding member, Lawrence “Pun” Plamondon, to see if he was willing to converse about his experiences and “the happenings” that took place while part of the affiliation.
After a request was sent, Pun replied promptly…He agreed to speak with me.
In case you are a stranger to Pun Plamondon’s extraordinary history, I will fill you in appropriately. Pun was a participating left wing activist throughout the 1960’s and along with John and Leni Sinclair founded the White Panther Party in Ann Arbor, Michigan. At 21-years old, Pun was living on the streets, actively partaking in the underground scene with Gary Grimshaw, Peter Werbe, Allen Ginsberg and many more. His name hit the papers in May of 1969 when he was listed on the FBI’s Most Wanted List for being accused as a conspirator in the bombing of a CIA office in Ann Arbor. But this didn’t stop him…he didn’t submit…he went underground. Pun was the first hippie EVER to be listed on the FBI’s Most Wanted List.
In July of 1970, he was arrested and later released after government officials admitted to wiretapping without a warrant.
Seems Big Brother was always watching after all.
Here is his story.
THIRSTY: Hey Pun, Jarrod Dicker here from Stay Thirsty.
Pun Plamondon: Hey Jarrod how are ya?
THIRSTY: Great man thanks. Let’s get right into this shall we?
PP: Fire away.
THIRSTY: Cool. So you were the first “hippie” to be listed on the FBI’s Most Wanted List. Is this something that you are proud to promote today?
PP: Being listed on the FBI’s Most Wanted List is one of my proudest accomplishments. Although I can’t say I set out, as a life goal, to be listed. I don’t advertise it, but if asked I don’t deny it. It looks impressive on a resume for certain gigs. I’ve always said you can judge a person or organization’s effectiveness by who their enemies are. I was proud to have the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover, John Mitchell, Richard Nixon and the CIA as my enemy. I must have been somewhat effective.
THIRSTY: Was it overwhelming when you became aware that you were adopted and in fact part Ottawa and part Ojibwa Indian? I read that this knowledge was revealed to you during your prosecution later in life, correct?
PP: A year after I was released from prison as a result of the Supreme Court victory, I found myself reading, along with my attorney, my psychological report prepared by the Behavioral Science Division of the FBI. I was sitting in the Judge’s chamber in northern Michigan waiting to be sentenced on an extortion beef that was connected to a pot deal gone awry. The FBI psych profile was part of a pre-sentence report submitted by the probation and parole department. I was fearful of going back to the penitentiary; after all, my record didn’t look good. We were on a recess from the sentencing proceedings and had a limited time to peruse the entire pre-sentence report. The FBI is thorough; they did my genealogy for me and found the records of my biological parents showing they were mixed-blood Ottawa and Ojibwa. I filed the information away, but didn’t do anything with it until some 10 years later when I was trying to get off drugs and alcohol.
THIRSTY: Did you always notice something uncanny throughout your childhood in the need to belong, in regards to your adoptive parents and eventual involvement with the White Panther Party?
PP: I was always apart. Apart from family, church, school. I never connected or fit in. I didn’t want to really. From an early age it seemed to me that the life of my parents, and the parents of my friends were the most boring imaginable. I didn’t understand why grown-ups weren’t living more exciting lives. I think that’s why I got into so much trouble at a young age—I would do anything to break the crushing boredom.
THIRSTY: And as history translates, we see you eventually did. When did you decide to dive into politics?
PP: We were poor and I knew it which gave me an attitude. When I worked for the union, that’s when I began to get a political consciousness. I was working with cats that were talking about the working class and ruling class, and exploitation, and racism, and they had an analysis and a method of working toward change. This blew my mind. The WPP was an organic outgrowth of the youth rebellion that swept across western civilization during the 60’s and 70’s. It was the gathering of all the scattered dreams and aspirations of a naturally rebellious generation and provided the means, machinery and vision to fulfill those dreams and aspirations. That we ultimately failed shows the success of the Federal, State and local governments and police forces to harass, frame and destroy us politically. And it shows our own shortcomings and inexperience in leadership and analysis. But what the fuck, we did the best we could with what we had. “There is grace from it…” David Sinclair said. “…to have seen one’s ego stark naked in the harsh light of its demands…”
THIRSTY: Are you still militant?
PP: I’m not a militant anymore. I still have a Marxist/Leninist/Mao/Fidel/Ho Chi Minh world view. I still believe in self-determination for nations. I still believe the capitalists will rape, pillage and destroy the world and all its peoples in their endless quest for profits. Now I push young people to the front, offer advice and encouragement whenever I can.
THIRSTY: Did you have a relationship with the poet Allen Ginsberg? I know he spent some time with John (Sinclair).
PP: Allen and I crossed paths many times, at conferences, poetry readings, gatherings, concert’s on both coasts, Madison, Ann Arbor/Detroit and Buffalo, N.Y. Of course he stayed with our commune whenever he was in town and he testified on our behalf during our CIA bombing trial in Detroit in 1970. Allen was a good friend. “A gentle panda bear poet” someone once called him. My great regret is that I didn’t see him before he passed.
THIRSTY: I spoke with John about his duties at the Fifth Estate? What was your role at the bi-weekly publication?
PP: At the Fifth Estate I was a general hooligan on call. I hung-out mostly, since I lived up-stairs in the Detroit Artists Workshop commune with Sinclair, Grimshaw, Leni and others. I wrote an article or two once, but nothing worth remembering, I’m sure.
THIRSTY: I recently interviewed Machinegun Thompson from the MC5. Were you friendly and/or involved with the musicians in Detroit at that time?
PP: Fuck yeah! I hung with all them cats. Kramer, Davis, Sonic Smith, Thompson. That’s just the MC5. I worked for Bob Seger for 5 years as his bodyguard. I was at the garage, on Halloween, the Zenta New Year, when Iggy and the Stooges did their first ever performance. Iggy was on claw hammer and 55-gallon oil drum with an Electrolux vacuum cleaner. For three years I helped organize free Sunday concerts attended by as many as 10,000 people, so I knew tons of musicians.
THIRSTY: After the notorious CIA Ann Arbor office bombing, you went underground to San Francisco, New York and Germany. Who did you stay with at these destinations? Were you harbored?
PP: Of course I was harbored. I stayed with people who I knew from my years as a member of the Detroit Artists Workshop and my time as a cultural activist. Poets, filmmakers, rowdies and radicals of every description, these are the people who took me in.
THIRSTY: How have your political views changed over the years? Have they remained the same or altered?
PP: My political views have modified and become richer and deeper over the years. However, my fundamental analysis holds true. Capitalism, if allowed to run amuck, will suck empty the earth resources, wreak havoc on the peoples of this place and ultimately turn the planet into a lifeless cinder floating in space. All in the quest for profits.
THIRSTY: Anything you hope to see happen politically in the upcoming years?
PP: I hope for a radical new electoral party that can be in true opposition to the two major capitalist parties. During the last Bush administration I was very active locally. We organized demonstrations, teach-in, movie showings, and public debates. Of course I’m constantly active in Native issues. Treaty rights, graves protection and repatriation of sacred objects to the Tribes.
THIRSTY: How have you been spending your time as you get older? Activities? Goals?
PP: Generally I’ve been involved in the day-to-day struggle for survival. I live on a mosquito ranch in Michigan with my wife Patricia where I write, make fine furniture and try to avoid difficult tasks. I’m working on a play about the forced removal of Ottawa and Pottawattomie from southern Michigan in the early 1800’s. I lecture at colleges and universities from time-to-time, go to conferences and pow wows, spend time with friends and work around the farm.
THIRSTY: What advice do you have for the younger generation of children and adults entering the political and social spectrum today?
PP: Advice for young people? Well, don’t leave roaches in the ashtray. Do keep journals and papers from the present, later they’ll be artifacts. Don’t be the first one to bring out your stash. Decide if this is the type of world you want to live in, if not, take action to change it.
THIRSTY: What can we expect from you in the future? More books, film?
PP: As I mentioned before, I’m working on a play. I’m trying to pull together some resources so I can write a book about the history of the White Panther Party/Rainbow People’s Party and Ann Arbor during the 60’s and 70’s.
THIRSTY: Well Pun, it’s been an absolute pleasure. Good luck to you in the future!
PP: Thanks Jarrod, you too man.
For more on the incredible history and life of Pun Plamondon and the White Panther Party, visit his website at punplamondon.com and also check out his book, “Lost From the Ottawa: The Story of the Journey Back”.
This is the second interview in a series entitled, “The White Panther Interviews.” The first one was with John Sinclair. This month’s is with White Panther Party co-founding member Larry “Pun” Plamondon.
After my conversation with John Sinclair, I was left hankering for a deeper understanding of the White Panther Party (WPP) and many of the radicals who participated actively to spark its creation. So I did some investigation to find another founding member, Lawrence “Pun” Plamondon, to see if he was willing to converse about his experiences and “the happenings” that took place while part of the affiliation.
After a request was sent, Pun replied promptly…He agreed to speak with me.
In case you are a stranger to Pun Plamondon’s extraordinary history, I will fill you in appropriately. Pun was a participating left wing activist throughout the 1960’s and along with John and Leni Sinclair founded the White Panther Party in Ann Arbor, Michigan. At 21-years old, Pun was living on the streets, actively partaking in the underground scene with Gary Grimshaw, Peter Werbe, Allen Ginsberg and many more. His name hit the papers in May of 1969 when he was listed on the FBI’s Most Wanted List for being accused as a conspirator in the bombing of a CIA office in Ann Arbor. But this didn’t stop him…he didn’t submit…he went underground. Pun was the first hippie EVER to be listed on the FBI’s Most Wanted List.
In July of 1970, he was arrested and later released after government officials admitted to wiretapping without a warrant.
Seems Big Brother was always watching after all.
Here is his story.
THIRSTY: Hey Pun, Jarrod Dicker here from Stay Thirsty.
Pun Plamondon: Hey Jarrod how are ya?
THIRSTY: Great man thanks. Let’s get right into this shall we?
PP: Fire away.
THIRSTY: Cool. So you were the first “hippie” to be listed on the FBI’s Most Wanted List. Is this something that you are proud to promote today?
PP: Being listed on the FBI’s Most Wanted List is one of my proudest accomplishments. Although I can’t say I set out, as a life goal, to be listed. I don’t advertise it, but if asked I don’t deny it. It looks impressive on a resume for certain gigs. I’ve always said you can judge a person or organization’s effectiveness by who their enemies are. I was proud to have the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover, John Mitchell, Richard Nixon and the CIA as my enemy. I must have been somewhat effective.
THIRSTY: Was it overwhelming when you became aware that you were adopted and in fact part Ottawa and part Ojibwa Indian? I read that this knowledge was revealed to you during your prosecution later in life, correct?
PP: A year after I was released from prison as a result of the Supreme Court victory, I found myself reading, along with my attorney, my psychological report prepared by the Behavioral Science Division of the FBI. I was sitting in the Judge’s chamber in northern Michigan waiting to be sentenced on an extortion beef that was connected to a pot deal gone awry. The FBI psych profile was part of a pre-sentence report submitted by the probation and parole department. I was fearful of going back to the penitentiary; after all, my record didn’t look good. We were on a recess from the sentencing proceedings and had a limited time to peruse the entire pre-sentence report. The FBI is thorough; they did my genealogy for me and found the records of my biological parents showing they were mixed-blood Ottawa and Ojibwa. I filed the information away, but didn’t do anything with it until some 10 years later when I was trying to get off drugs and alcohol.
THIRSTY: Did you always notice something uncanny throughout your childhood in the need to belong, in regards to your adoptive parents and eventual involvement with the White Panther Party?
PP: I was always apart. Apart from family, church, school. I never connected or fit in. I didn’t want to really. From an early age it seemed to me that the life of my parents, and the parents of my friends were the most boring imaginable. I didn’t understand why grown-ups weren’t living more exciting lives. I think that’s why I got into so much trouble at a young age—I would do anything to break the crushing boredom.
THIRSTY: And as history translates, we see you eventually did. When did you decide to dive into politics?
PP: We were poor and I knew it which gave me an attitude. When I worked for the union, that’s when I began to get a political consciousness. I was working with cats that were talking about the working class and ruling class, and exploitation, and racism, and they had an analysis and a method of working toward change. This blew my mind. The WPP was an organic outgrowth of the youth rebellion that swept across western civilization during the 60’s and 70’s. It was the gathering of all the scattered dreams and aspirations of a naturally rebellious generation and provided the means, machinery and vision to fulfill those dreams and aspirations. That we ultimately failed shows the success of the Federal, State and local governments and police forces to harass, frame and destroy us politically. And it shows our own shortcomings and inexperience in leadership and analysis. But what the fuck, we did the best we could with what we had. “There is grace from it…” David Sinclair said. “…to have seen one’s ego stark naked in the harsh light of its demands…”
THIRSTY: Are you still militant?
PP: I’m not a militant anymore. I still have a Marxist/Leninist/Mao/Fidel/Ho Chi Minh world view. I still believe in self-determination for nations. I still believe the capitalists will rape, pillage and destroy the world and all its peoples in their endless quest for profits. Now I push young people to the front, offer advice and encouragement whenever I can.
THIRSTY: Did you have a relationship with the poet Allen Ginsberg? I know he spent some time with John (Sinclair).
PP: Allen and I crossed paths many times, at conferences, poetry readings, gatherings, concert’s on both coasts, Madison, Ann Arbor/Detroit and Buffalo, N.Y. Of course he stayed with our commune whenever he was in town and he testified on our behalf during our CIA bombing trial in Detroit in 1970. Allen was a good friend. “A gentle panda bear poet” someone once called him. My great regret is that I didn’t see him before he passed.
THIRSTY: I spoke with John about his duties at the Fifth Estate? What was your role at the bi-weekly publication?
PP: At the Fifth Estate I was a general hooligan on call. I hung-out mostly, since I lived up-stairs in the Detroit Artists Workshop commune with Sinclair, Grimshaw, Leni and others. I wrote an article or two once, but nothing worth remembering, I’m sure.
THIRSTY: I recently interviewed Machinegun Thompson from the MC5. Were you friendly and/or involved with the musicians in Detroit at that time?
PP: Fuck yeah! I hung with all them cats. Kramer, Davis, Sonic Smith, Thompson. That’s just the MC5. I worked for Bob Seger for 5 years as his bodyguard. I was at the garage, on Halloween, the Zenta New Year, when Iggy and the Stooges did their first ever performance. Iggy was on claw hammer and 55-gallon oil drum with an Electrolux vacuum cleaner. For three years I helped organize free Sunday concerts attended by as many as 10,000 people, so I knew tons of musicians.
THIRSTY: After the notorious CIA Ann Arbor office bombing, you went underground to San Francisco, New York and Germany. Who did you stay with at these destinations? Were you harbored?
PP: Of course I was harbored. I stayed with people who I knew from my years as a member of the Detroit Artists Workshop and my time as a cultural activist. Poets, filmmakers, rowdies and radicals of every description, these are the people who took me in.
THIRSTY: How have your political views changed over the years? Have they remained the same or altered?
PP: My political views have modified and become richer and deeper over the years. However, my fundamental analysis holds true. Capitalism, if allowed to run amuck, will suck empty the earth resources, wreak havoc on the peoples of this place and ultimately turn the planet into a lifeless cinder floating in space. All in the quest for profits.
THIRSTY: Anything you hope to see happen politically in the upcoming years?
PP: I hope for a radical new electoral party that can be in true opposition to the two major capitalist parties. During the last Bush administration I was very active locally. We organized demonstrations, teach-in, movie showings, and public debates. Of course I’m constantly active in Native issues. Treaty rights, graves protection and repatriation of sacred objects to the Tribes.
THIRSTY: How have you been spending your time as you get older? Activities? Goals?
PP: Generally I’ve been involved in the day-to-day struggle for survival. I live on a mosquito ranch in Michigan with my wife Patricia where I write, make fine furniture and try to avoid difficult tasks. I’m working on a play about the forced removal of Ottawa and Pottawattomie from southern Michigan in the early 1800’s. I lecture at colleges and universities from time-to-time, go to conferences and pow wows, spend time with friends and work around the farm.
THIRSTY: What advice do you have for the younger generation of children and adults entering the political and social spectrum today?
PP: Advice for young people? Well, don’t leave roaches in the ashtray. Do keep journals and papers from the present, later they’ll be artifacts. Don’t be the first one to bring out your stash. Decide if this is the type of world you want to live in, if not, take action to change it.
THIRSTY: What can we expect from you in the future? More books, film?
PP: As I mentioned before, I’m working on a play. I’m trying to pull together some resources so I can write a book about the history of the White Panther Party/Rainbow People’s Party and Ann Arbor during the 60’s and 70’s.
THIRSTY: Well Pun, it’s been an absolute pleasure. Good luck to you in the future!
PP: Thanks Jarrod, you too man.
For more on the incredible history and life of Pun Plamondon and the White Panther Party, visit his website at punplamondon.com and also check out his book, “Lost From the Ottawa: The Story of the Journey Back”.
Thursday, December 3, 2009
Interview with John Mayall (jambase.com)
See original publishing on jambase.com here.
"I think we are keeping it alive," John Mayall murmurs in a rather sanguine tone responding to my query about the impending death of the blues. "It's not only that though, it's inspiring kids and musicians, who seem to be taking to their instruments a lot earlier than they used to do. It just shows the power of the music. It keeps going from generation to generation. It might not be hit parade stuff but there's definitely a permanent market for blues music. I think it will always be relevant as well, inspiring people to play."
The blues is a genre built upon the underpinnings of ingenious innovators decades ago. It has since progressed, been modified and even drastically altered, birthing various sister shapes found in most forms of rock & roll. Nonetheless, in the end, it is one faction of music that will always relish and revere its classic roots. John Mayall was one of the exploratory musicians who took American blues to the U.K. and made it his own, garnering himself the unofficial title of "Godfather of British blues."
In November 2008, Mayall announced on his website that he'd decided to disband the current incarnation of the Bluesbreakers to give himself more time to work independently. However, as nothing can keep a good man down, a follow-up announcement three months later declared the launch of a world tour with a new set of musicians. "The Bluesbreakers are no more," Mayall says. "It's now under the banner of my name, [the] John Mayall Band."
Mayall's new group mirrors the framework of past ensembles; an assemblage of exceptional musicians in their own right, which together structure a group of absolute and unique artistry. The newest edition consists of Rocky Athas (guitar), Chicago musicians Greg Rzab (bass) and Jay Davenport (drums), and former Mayall bandmate Tom Canning (keyboards).
Together they helped produce Mayall's 57th studio album, Tough, released via Eagle Records on September 7 in U.K./Europe and September 15 in the United States.
"After just ten albums I didn't think I'd ever reach 57," Mayall laughs heartily. "It's been pretty amazing, but the albums seem to fall into place at regular intervals, you know? Of course, I've been on the road for quite some years now as well, so [new albums] tend to come up."
Tough grants listeners three brand new songs written by Mayall, "Slow Train to Nowhere," "That Good Old Rockin' Blues," and "Tough Times Ahead." As repeated by many reviews of the latest album, Mayall evokes lyrical content from situations he feels close to in his life. Whether it is the current state of political affairs or the existing condition of music, Mayall concentrates on his passions and transcribes them lyrically and musically on Tough. Not to mention at 76-years-old Mayall continues to annihilate the guitar, harmonica and organ while providing familiar vocal patterns fans have grown to treasure over the years.
After a staggering 57 albums one might assume that Mayall has acclimated himself to a life of musical prosperity, but everything hasn't always worked so leniently on his behalf. Constant changes in band lineups, personal issues, and lack of public limelight have hindered Mayall throughout his career, but never stopped him.
Born in England, Mayall heard American blues music as an adolescent and has cherished it since. So how exactly did a white lad in the 1940s from urban London come in contact with the blues?
"My father's record collection was the starting point when I was a kid," he proudly boasts. "Because of him, music was always there for me to subconsciously get into my system. It's been with me all of life really."
Mayall trained himself to play and broaden his musical comprehension by use of his father's and various neighbor's instruments. But music was, at this particular moment in his life, a second adoration. He was exceptionally creative and drawn to painting and other forms of art. He still utilizes these skills today in his musical efforts.
"I do have a hand in some art when it comes to upcoming album designs for my records and various other bits and pieces. Some tour material as well," says Mayall. "It's useful to have this skill, so from time to time they let me use my artistic work."
But as history tells, music conquered fine art as his primary worship and while serving in the Korean War, Mayall was able to cease borrowing instruments and claim one of his own.
"I was playing guitar before the war, but when I went to Korea, midway through we had leave in Japan, so I bought myself my first brand new electric guitar in Tokyo," he recalls. "That meant that I had an instrument of my own that my father wasn't using. So, it was quite nice to have my own actual electric guitar."
After that, Mayall fixed himself as a blues brewing factory. He would assemble skilled musicians, allow them to master their craft and produce admirable music, and then release them into the musical wild to triumph in their future endeavors. Just to name a modest few, early Bluesbreakers included Eric Clapton, Peter Green, John McVie, Mick Fleetwood, Andy Fraser and Mick Taylor. These musicians would come and go, however, all went to form or join their own legendary groups including Cream, Derek and the Dominos, Fleetwood Mac, Free, and The Rolling Stones.
"John Mayall has actually run an incredibly great school for musicians," Eric Clapton has stated.
Upon relaying the admirable quote to Mayall, his response is quite humble.
"Well... it just seems that way doesn't it? When you collectively go through the entire list, I think it's probably due to the fact that I've always been a bandleader and bandleader's always put their own stamp on whatever they do, regardless of who's playing in the band. So, I think that that's probably the thing that automatically happens when you have a bandleader who's calling the shots, so to speak."
The band leading titan has continued to manufacture musicians, who circulate in and out of his band at various points, both early and late in their careers. But one must ask whether the constant variation of the Bluesbreakers was done deliberately?
"It's not always by choice, especially in the early days when all those guys whose names we very well know were all finding their own directions," Mayall explains. "It was inevitable that they would work with me, hone their skills, so to speak, and then go on in their own direction. So, that was kind of the pattern of things and I didn't expect anything different really. Anytime there was a change, of course, and this applies throughout my career, it would kick some new life into it because you'd have different musicians, styles, and individualities. It's always a stimulating thing when you get new people."
"I think because of the individuality and the energies each particular lineup brought to the table, it's impossible to set one against the other. I'm just very proud of the fact that all the bands that I've put together have been received so wonderfully by audiences," continues Mayall. "That goes for all of the countries all over the world. They've given me that freedom to choose musicians and put bands together that have been great for us and of course, fortunately, people agreed to it."
Outside of the Bluesbreakers Mayall has partnered with the likes of Albert King, Buddy Guy, Junior Wells, Billy Gibbons (ZZ Top), and most recently, B.B. King, just to name just few. In 2005, Mayall was made an officer of the Order of the British Empire by the Queen's Honor list alongside Brian May and Jimmy Page.
But some bewilderment lingers despite Mayall's successful and celebrated career, a few things left unfulfilled that leaves his peers, fans and critics pondering, "Why?" John Mayall has received just ONE Grammy nomination for the 57 albums he's released. Sadly, the nomination didn't result in a win. And he still hasn't been chosen for inclusion in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It seems preposterous with his resume that these honors haven't come his way, but as with many artists, these organizations often overlook the truly worthy. Luckily for us, Mayall hasn't let awards distract from his musical journey. He simply continues to do what he does best with little regard for these slights.
Now, a father of six children and grandfather of six more, Mayall has built a tremendous musical kingdom of his own. But does blue blood run through the Mayall family veins?
"I don't know about that!" he laughs. "They've all got their differences. My eldest son, who's in his fifties, has always been active in the music scene in London. He's had his own blues club for the last 20 years. My next eldest son works for a Japanese music company that puts on the festivals there every year. So there is a connection that runs through that with the music side of things, I suppose."
He may be growing long in the tooth, but this energizer bunny of the blues has no intention of slowing down anytime soon.
"I'm sure there will be many other records, and we have a busy touring schedule shaping up," Mayall exclaims. "All the details of that and everything else are always obtainable through my website. It's really an excellent forum for fans to get their thoughts on the music and also tells everyone where we'll be playing and everything else. It's all the news that's fit to print!"
Friday, November 13, 2009
Interview with Johnny Winter (jambase.com)
See original publishing on jambase.com here.
When Old Man Winter comes to town
He's got a special way of dropping in
And spreading cheer around
You know [the blues] is around the bend
And he won't let you down
When Old Man Winter comes to town
-Old Man Winter (Revisited) by The Moffatts
It's been a cold 40 years of Winter.
Since 1969 Johnny Winter has conquered all that there is to seize in the "blues race." He has been awarded Grammy accolades, performed at the original Woodstock festival, been recognized as one of the supreme guitarists of all time by Rolling Stone, and been inducted into the Blues Foundation Hall of Fame. He has collaborated, live and in studio, with myriad musicians of various genres, from Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin to Muddy Waters and B.B. King, even jamming with the young guitar protégés Derek Trucks and John Mayer. Johnny's ridden to hell and back, warding off a grave dependence on heroin and booze to continue his journey of manufacturing marvelous blues music. So, what's left to natter about concerning the fast-fingered blues legend?
Well, it's been an exceptionally hot year in the 65-year-old's wonderland. The two-disc The Johnny Winter Anthology, Johnny Winter Live Bootleg Series, Vol. 5, Johnny Winter: The Woodstock Experience, and the Woodstock: 3 Days of Peace & Music Director's Cut 40th anniversary DVD with never before seen live footage of Winter, were all released in 2009. And at the end of 2008 the DVD Live Through The 70's was received very well and we can look forward to the upcoming biography, Raisin' Cain: "The Wild and Raucous Story of Johnny Winter", expected release around May of 2010, covering anything and everything throughout the guitarist's entire career.
JamBase sat down with the Texas talent to discuss these recent events and also the nitty and gritty details that have made Old Man Winter the legendary bluesman he is today.
JamBase: It has been 40 years since you signed your first record contract with Columbia Records. Today, your new bootleg CD series, Volumes 1-5, have all charted top ten on the Billboard blues charts. How does it feel that after 40 years people are still listening, and, most importantly, purchasing your material?
Johnny Winter: It feels great. I'm really pleased with how well my live series has been received. I had so much material from over the years and was very happy to find the right way to distribute it all. Also, it was great finding a label to release it as a series in such a way as it's being presented.
JamBase: It's also been 40 years since the original Woodstock festival. What were you able to take away from that experience, and what do you now cherish from it?
Johnny Winter: There is a saying that goes around stating that if you REALLY played Woodstock the memories are forever blurry. Let's put it this way, I don't remember a thing! At that time, to me, it was just another gig. But once I saw how it began developing I knew it was going to be a bigger and greater show than the 150,000 seaters we were already frequently playing. I knew then that this was something I had to be a part of. I played Jimi's original offered time slot on Sunday at around 12:00 midnight. There was no rain and it was absolutely packed. I will tell you that it's great that after all these years Warner released their Director's Cut of the 40th anniversary Woodstock DVD. It finally features my performance of "Mean Town Blues." Also, it's wonderful that Sony released my whole audio performance [Johnny Winter: The Woodstock Experience]. I guess, like most who were there, I'll always cherish the time spent and memories.
There is also a book pending publication on May 1, 2010 called Raisin' Cain: "The Wild and Raucous Story of Johnny Winter". Are you the writer and what will it cover?
I had a ghostwriter for this. The book covers my whole life, both private and professionally, my dealings with Janis Joplin, time on tour, musicians I've spent time playing with, my relationship with Muddy, I mean seriously, my whole life, all the ups and downs, everything! It was very emotional for me to read. The writer really nailed it. It's right on.
You specialize in American blues and have become a legend amongst both historic musicians in the Delta regime and modern performers such as Eric Clapton and Jack White. Who were your inspirations and encouraging artists while you were steppin' into the music world?
I've always loved the blues since I was a child. Listening to musicians like Muddy Waters, Robert Johnson, Jimmy Reed, Lightnin' Slim, Gatemouth Brown, Elmore James, Chuck Berry, T-Bone Walker, and B.B. King all influenced my playing from the start. To me, the blues is such a strong musical style that I don't feel it will ever go away. The blues adds to every musical style. That's why it's necessary to have a blues background in whatever style of music you play.
I've read that your parents pushed you and Edgar [Winter, Johnny's keyboard/sax playing younger brother] to participate in music. What did they casually play around the house? How else were they motivating to yourself and Edgar?
They didn't exactly push us. We just really wanted to play music and they were very supportive. Daddy played sax and banjo in college. He taught me my first chords on a ukulele when I was young. Momma played piano. So, they were both very musical. Secretively, I think they really wanted me to be a lawyer [chuckle].
How is your current relationship with Edgar? Do you two still collaborate musically?
Our relationship is great! We're good friends. We still do shows together from time to time. I just recorded on the song "Rockin' the Blues" on his latest album, Rebel Road.
One of your first big breaks was when Mike Bloomfield invited you to sing and engage in the Super Session jam at the Fillmore East in New York. What was this experience like for you? Did you maintain a relationship with Mike Bloomfield?
It was a lot of fun. I don't remember who the other musicians were other than Mike and Al [Kooper]. Like I said, my early introduction to the blues was through listening to Muddy Waters, and this was primarily one of the main reasons why I eventually made the trek to Chicago. I only stayed there for about a year, and that's where I first met Mike Bloomfield at a club called The Fickle Pickle. I wasn't too happy there in Chicago, so I soon went back to Texas. But yes, through meeting Mike it later led to him also helping to officially launch my career.
After that you signed what was then the largest advance in the history of the recording industry at Columbia Records, $600,000, did this unlock an overwhelming amount of musical opportunities for you?
Oh yes, for sure it was nonstop from there. Sadly, this also led to many of the problems I dealt with with drugs. I'm happy to say I'm all over with that now. The credit is all thanks to my other guitarist Paul Nelson. He is an amazing player and is the one who helped me guide my career back on track. It's all good now and I feel great!
You are notorious for your cover of Dylan's "Highway 61 Revisited." Why this specific song and have you ever had the opportunity to play it with its creator?
I just simply liked the song and wanted to do a cover of it. I never actually played it with Dylan, but I did perform my rendition of "Highway 61 Revisited" at the Madison Square Garden party for him. Of course, he was there. There is a video of me playing it floating all around the Internet on YouTube and other such video sites.
Tell me a little bit about Muddy Waters, specifically, what he meant to you and how it felt to finally record with him? I mean, you got him a Grammy award. It must have been one hell of a solid relationship. [Editor's note: Johnny Winter produced a trio of brilliant Muddy albums - Hard Again (1977), I'm Ready (1978), and King Bee (1981), as well playing on Grammy winning live album Muddy "Mississippi" Waters – Live (1979)].
It was three to be exact. I produced and performed on four of his albums. Working with Muddy was the absolute high point of my career. Throughout that and after we became great friends. He was an excellent person and above that, an honest and real gentleman. He would always drink champagne; Dom Pérignon was all he drank. He had a ton of class and a lot of true, real dignity. He'd been through a lot of ups and downs. I miss Muddy. If he were alive, we'd still be recording together.
You're currently on tour. I heard through various media outlets that you are strictly playing the blues and no more R&R. Is this correct?
Yes. I am and forever will always be on the road. Actually, my show is now more like 80-percent blues and the rest is rock & roll. I've been changing my set more and more so it's different every time. But, as I said before, my true love is the blues.
Where do you enjoy playing most on tour?
Amsterdam is one of my favorites [winks].
In 1988 you were inducted into the Blues Foundation Hall of Fame among the all time legends in that genre. Is it comforting to know that your music was and will forever be respected as some of the all time best in blues?
Of course! It's an extremely great and exciting honor. I'm at the point in my career where I love receiving awards [laughs].
Rolling Stone ranked you 74th on the list of all time greatest guitarist, which is a remarkable feat. Do you think this ranking is accurate?
To be absolutely honest, I haven't talked to ONE person that has had anything good to say about that poll.
You grew up in Texas during a time of excessive racial tension. Was it difficult to go to the predominately black blues clubs at that time? Were establishments judging and/or rejecting your admittance?
No, not at all. It was in an all black club in 1962 that my brother Edgar and I went to see B.B. King at a Beaumont club called The Raven. We were the only white guys in the crowd, and there was no doubt that we clearly stood out. I was about 17 and B.B. didn't want to let me onstage at first. I kept asking and asking and asking. He asked me for a union card, and I had one. Also, I kept sending people over to ask him to let me play. Finally, he decided that there were enough people who wanted to hear me that no matter if I was good or not it would be worth it for him to let me onstage. He gave me his guitar and let me play. I got a standing ovation! After that, he took his guitar back [laughs].
Another Texas legend was the late great Stevie Ray Vaughan. How did you feel about his hard rock blues infiltrating the Austin city scene, as well as other Texas great such as Billy Gibbons [ZZ Top]?
Stevie was a great player as is Billy. They both have added so much in keeping the blues alive. Great guitarists, the two of 'em.
Who was the most pleasurable artist that you've ever collaborated with live besides Muddy Waters?
Hmmm, I'd have to say John Lee Hooker and Sonny Terry. Sonny Terry and I did an album called Whoopin' on my label, Mad Albino Records. It was a great moment that I will never forget.
What are your sentiments on modern music today?
I am not a fan of it that much at all. I enjoy listening to artists and music of the past, which helps me keep my current playing fresh. I have over 14,000 songs on my iPod. I do like some [contemporary artists], of course. Well, Derek Trucks for instance. He's an absolutely great and skilled guitar player.
What should we expect from Johnny Winter in the near and far future?
More music, more shows, and more blues guitar.
Do you really plan to stay on the road forever?
Son, I'll be playing the blues on the open road 'til the day I die.
Thursday, November 12, 2009
Interview with Joe Bonamassa (ultimate-guitar.com)
See original publishing on UG here.
Billie Burke once said that, "Age is something that doesn’t matter, unless you are a cheese."
In music, critics like to assemble a musical hierarchy by evaluating different qualities each performer holds within their skill set; be it knowledge, general ability, autonomy, collaborations, songwriting, I mean we can go on forever. The pecking order seems to be, though unofficial, strongly influenced by one’s age, paralleling with their "experience" and production in the musical realm. Thus names like B.B. King, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page & Jeff Beck interchange constantly as "the best" varying from list to list. However, when someone’s skills circumcede their expectations at an age, adjustments must be employed to permit the young’n to ascend the ladder of dominance and fight for the throne. Thus is the case with Joe Bonamassa.
At 32 years old, Joe is one of the few guitar prodigies to accomplish all that he has conquered in music at such a youthful age. His second studio album, So It’s Like That received a number one ranking on the Billboard Blues Chart. His follow up album, Blues Deluxe, which released in 2003, also found its way to number one on the Blues Charts. The following albums traced the footprints of the priors, all leading the way to blues nirvana and admiration. Joe, also known for his astonishing covers of the classic, has the entire package of proficiency & deference that will ultimately place him on top of the list of the all time greats.
In 2009, Bonamassa released The Ballad Of John Henry, which has been his biggest internationally praised album to date. This, accompanied by the October release of his anticipated Live From The Albert Hall DVD, has declared this truly to be the year of Joe Bonamassa. Now as he embarks on a multi-country tour, Jarrod Dicker speaks with the guitar sensation to discuss his playing, touring, the new album/DVD and much more.
UG: I heard you’re currently heading Guitar Center’s, “King Of The Blues” contest. Can you just give a run down on how that’s going?
Joe Bonamassa: It's been going great. The Guitar Center people are really nice, you know? Hell I put most of their employees through college through one sense or another with the amount of guitars I buy from them [laughs]. Honestly it's truly been really fun and we're all about the kids around here. So we like to encourage the kids to play and do musical stuff. It just seems like a real natural fit. I've kind of been the spokesperson for this deal for the last eight months and it's really been going well.
On November 16th, you left for a multi-country European tour. This seems to be a popular stomping ground for much of your touring. Is this a solo tour or will other artists be featured on the bill?
Well generally if other artists show up at a gig, I announce it the day of. It's generally “An evening with,” and on this tour we don't have an opener except for England. My friend Sandi Thom is going to come out and do some shows with us. It’s awesome because we get to see our friends while touring, and she's our tour mate. Other than that, there aren't really any other artists. There could be some later possibly, in places like Milan, but generally if it's a solo gig it's “An evening with.” I do two hours, two and a half hours so we give a good show. More notes for the dollar or your money back!
In October, your feature DVD, “Joe Bonamassa Live from the Royal Albert Hall” was released. One of the chapters includes a duet of you with Eric Clapton playing the blues classic, “Further on Up the Road.” He’s played this with many artists such as Robbie Robertson, Jeff Beck and more. How did it feel to share the stage with the British Blues legend?
I mean it was an incredible honor of course. The guy is my hero. And what is more remarkable is the fact that he took time out of his day to get to the show. He was able to get that sorted out and then come over and do the gig with us. It was fantastic, really fantastic.
The beginning of this year (February) kicked off with the release of your new album, The Ballad of John Henry. How has the overall reception been now that it’s been in the public eye for the past nine months?
This has obviously been our biggest album to date. It's been the biggest world wide success we've ever had so far. Again, it's been so phenomenal to see how accepted and popular this music has become. And tonight's a really weird and momentous night to be speaking with me… This is because you're talking to me before my 20th Anniversary Concert.
Ah, that’s badass as hell. What an accomplishment, kudos to you good sir.
Thanks man.
And now this is your fourth consecutive album produced by Kevin Shirley aka The Caveman, correct?
Yup, that’s right.
Do you credit him with the ability to transform the special style you attain and transcend it to another level like he had done with Led Zeppelin, Rush and Dream Theater?
Absolutely. He has done so much and is definitely one of the people in this business that I really appreciate. Kevin has been such a great guy to know and he's also been really tremendous as far as finding material and giving a focus and vision to my music. It's been really great…so how do I quantify an impact he’s had on my music? I've made six albums that were relatively of cult obscurity and then all of a sudden he comes in during 2005 and now, well, just this week I have three albums on the charts. So to quantify it is difficult to really describe in words the impact Kevin Shirley has had on my music.
How did you particularly fall into playing guitar?
Pretty easy, my dad played. He was a guitar dealer and had a bunch of stuff (guitars) all over the house and what not. And that was kind of the deal there. It was a family business.
It seems like you were born to create music. Did musical theory and a lot of the complexities in the field seem to come easier to you?
No not at all. Nothing ever came easily and still doesn't come easily. It's just one of those things for me that... I mean, I still have to work at it. I am an example of this. You completely have to work at it if you expect results.
What guitars will you be slugging around during the fall/winter tour?
I basically have a Gibson Les Paul Signature that I've been using which I love. They're like my children [laughs]. I basically use Gibson and I use a Yamaha acoustic every once in a while.
BB King was quoted when you were a child stating, “This kid’s potential is unbelievable. He hasn’t even begun to scratch the surface. He’s one of a kind.” And in 2005, he personally requested that you open for his landmark 80th birthday celebration. Seeing how solid your relationship is with B.B., would you say that he was The Most influential musician in your development as a guitar player?
It’s between him and Eric Clapton. Both were really fantastically influential.
How about any of the original Delta Blues players?
I mean, obviously. I share a birthday with Robert Johnson, but the English stuff was the stuff that really got to me more than anything.
Being one of the young prodigies, do you have any special bond with the other guys that did it at a young age like Derek Trucks and Walter Trout? How do you compare yourself in relation to them, both with and against?
You don't compare yourself against them; you just try to carve out your own niche. I love Derek and Walter. They're both great people. I've known them both for 20 years...I've known Walter less, but Derek and I have known each other 20 years. But, you know, you carve out your own niche. Walter's thing is completely different than Derek's thing. My thing is completely different than Derek's thing. And there's room enough for everybody. I think it's a really exciting time in music because there's a new crop to it. There's a bunch of guys and girls, Susan Tedeschi and a few others that are getting traction and starting to get notoriety. And all of a sudden there is a definitive new generation that's popping up and it's only taken them 20 years to get there, you know? Having to play Donkey Kong, dodging barrels on their way up to the top of the mountain [laughs]. But it is what it is; the ones who persevere and don't give up actually go out and accomplish it.
Like you were saying before, things in music and theory don’t come easy…
And I'm a living breathing testament to that. Again, it's one of those things where, how do you really measure it? It's a real exciting time for Blues and this kind of music because of the competition. Obviously when you put out a record you look to what everyone else is doing and you’re kind of like, 'Well hell I have to raise my game because Derek just put out a really good record, and then Susan and Walter just put out a really good record.' You know, you kind of have to raise your game and you obviously want to be better than everyone else but you also don't begrudge anybody for their success if they do better than you. It just makes you better.
You seem to be one of those artists that are continuously on the road. Is this something that you enjoy doing or is it for other reasons like promotion, etc?
Touring is how you make your living now. Touring is how I pay the bills and have a big truck with my name on it and have three completely different sets of gear [laughs]. You know it's as monetary as it is to simply having to go out there and build fans. We had a sold out gig last night and we're playing the same deal tonight, we've done House of Blues ten times before in my life. And I've had 30 people come to me at the end saying how this is their first time seeing me. So there you go, new fan, new fan, new fan. And it's bringing a bunch of those together and you repeat the step about 4 or 5 thousand times over a course of 20 years and you end up where we're at now.
You oversee your own independent label, J&R Adventures with your partner and manager Roy Weisman. Do you find this business approach alleviating as opposed to having the “big machine” behind your every move and release?
Weisman and I can have a meeting and it's like, ‘Hey you wanna do something?’ And then it's done, meeting over. You know what I mean? Record companies are crazy. Anybody with a following and is selling records is crazy to be on a label right now. If you have a tract record and you can sell records, you're so far ahead of the game. If you sell 100,000 or a little over, you're so much better off just starting your own company. A) You make the money B) You control your life. So there's no reason not to be able to control your life and not have someone tell you what to do. I just have an aversion to that anyway.
You are also a DJ as well. Are there any other instruments you enjoy playing?
I play keyboards extraordinarily poorly and play drums even worse [laughs]. The sound of a drum set being thrown down a flight of stairs and the sound of me playing is not much different.
I recently interviewed John Mayall and asked him where he saw the Blues heading in forthcoming generations? He feels that a lot of the old timers keep it going, but they also pride themselves in inspiring kids and musicians to participate in their musicianship earlier. When I heard this, I thought of you instantaneously. How did you discover the Blues?
My dad had a good record collection. And that was pretty much it, all home grown. I do listen to John Mayall. He's a guy who definitely should be classified as a British BB King almost. His legacy and work is so profound.
Being a musician who respects the work done by classic artists, is there any modern music that you follow in today’s scene?
Not much actually. I listen to a ton of radio, but stuff like Iron Maiden & System of a Down is stuff that I’m into. That’s the real kind of ‘stretching the boundaries’ of the definition of a genre kind of stuff.
A lot of people I speak with have some negative insight involving the direction they see music taking. It seems to be that sentiment across all genres, but I’m curious if you think the Blues will eventually pass away…being that it is such a classic genre that builds off the groundwork of those of old?
I don't think so. To me, it's like; I can sit here and kind of be uber optimistic and say it's going to grow until we rule the world. I doubt that's going to happen realistically. But there is definitely going to be a market for it. Also, there are more kids coming to my gigs now. There has definitely been a transitional shift in who comes and sees the gig. There are girls now which is like seeing the Northern Lights during the day…aka it's rare [laughs]. There are more women and girls and there are kids! And that's the new generation. That's the crowd I'm going to be playing for in 20 years. The people that are 55-60, in 20 years will be 75-80. They're not coming to gigs. Maybe some of them will, but you're going to lose some of those. So you really need a new generation of fans. By in large, musicians don't understand that concept. They're some that do, and they will do well. But by in large, some musicians in the Blues don't understand that concept. You also have to sit people down as well. Seated shows will do better for you…
Really, I assumed otherwise…
Who wants to stand for 2 hours? I wouldn't stand for anyone for two hours, you know? I'd like a seat [haha].
Well Joe, it’s truly been a pleasure. Hope to see some more work in the New Year.
There absolutely will be. I’m expecting to go back into the studio and we are planning on releasing a box set. More touring as well! Thanks Jarrod.
Photo credit: Christie Goodwin
Interview by Jarrod Dicker
Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2009
Tuesday, November 10, 2009
Interview with Bela Fleck (ultimate-guitar.com)
See the original publishing on UG here.
It’s hard to define the absolute "best" in relation to any professional occupation, especially in the vastly populated and dense music industry. The best guitarist, drummer, bassist, etc. are a constant interchange between a distinguished group of 5-10 legendary musicians who replace one another as king of their aptitude. But there is one musician who stands undoubtedly on top of the throne in his field, who has revolutionized his instrument beyond any classical measure. This man is Bela Fleck.
Considered the premier banjo player in the world, Bela has taken the music universe by storm having won 11 Grammy awards and receiving 25 total nominations. Releasing his first solo album in 1980, Bela hasn’t looked back since, and continues truckin’ along with various musical collaborations (Flecktones, Strength in Numbers, Sparrow Quartet), guest appearances with world renowned artists (Warren Haynes, Dave Matthews, Phish, Ginger Baker and more) and solo work. With the recent release of his documentary DVD, Throw Down Your Heart which follows him through his musical journey in Africa, and his current tour with The Melody of Rhythm, Bela is doing his part as a musician to keep harmonic and melodic ambience alive by producing and distributing beautiful music for listeners worldwide.
Presently on tour with his most recent partnership, The Melody Of Rhythm, Bela plans to add to his 40+ record repertoire and continue fascinating the music world with his phenomenal musical abilities and undeniable creative influence on the music scene. After a brief hiatus, a city wide tour with the Africa Project will ensue followed by a follow up tour with The Melody Of Rhythm throughout next summer, not to mention surprising and interesting projects in between.
Jarrod Dicker spoke with Bela Fleck to discuss his past history, his recent and future projects and what expectations are in store for the undeniable sole king of the banjo.
Hey Bela, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me.
Bela: Jarrod, no problem, my pleasure.
So let's jump right into this. You're currently touring with Edgar Meyer and Zakir Hussain (The Melody of Rhythm). How do you decide between the various projects you associate yourself with (Flecktones, Melody of Rhythm, etc.)? Let me rephrase that…as in when to tour with which and when to create an album with whom or whether to just do a solo album/tour?
Things kind of fall into a rhythm that begins when the group decides to play together. Then we begin to compose, put a recording out, and then continue as long as it makes sense to all the parties. I do feel it is very important to support recordings. You really have to get behind each one and be its backbone. You can record so easily, but touring is a real commitment to the music. I have to feel that each one is an idealistic pursuit in which I can learn and achieve something.
You were born in New York City and attended the High School of Music and Art where you studied the French horn along with the Banjo. What drove you to become so musical and to navigate your life in the direction of becoming a professional musician?
I fell deeply in love with the banjo. It was such a powerful magnet that everything else simply fell away. When I got out of high school I had applied to no colleges [laughs]! You really couldn't study banjo in school in those days. So that was the direction I went in.
Who were your musical inspirations growing up? Whether they were professional musicans, family, etc.?
I loved the Beatles. Then later on I got hooked on Earl Scruggs. That led the way to Tony Trischka and then eventually Chick Corea. The list goes on and on. They’re just so many influences.
Would you say your banjo style is unique to your own innovation or did you comprise it from players you grew up admiring?
I took a lot from everyone I heard and loved. I tried to avoid sounding like anyone else. And as soon as I got out of high school I was playing professionally. I had to work hard to stop sounding like Tony Trischka, since he was my absolute hero. Then I kept digging stuff out of myself that I hadn't heard anyone else do. And basically it formed the sound that you hear today.
During the 1980’s you spent a lot of time playing with Doc Watson. What did he mean to you personally and as a musician?
Playing with Doc made me feel like I was a legit traditional player, which was honestly what I always wanted. Growing up in New York City, it was important to me to not be considered a 'Northern Picker." You know, one who didn't really "get" bluegrass. Playing on his bluegrass album 'Riding the Midnight Train" was a big deal to me.
I read that you’ve collaborated with Ginger Baker previously in a studio session. If I’m not mistaken, it was on three tracks of his Falling off the Roof album. What was he like in person? Were you able to jam out together?
That was a very strange session. The story is he actually had fallen off the roof a couple of days before. So evidently he was on pain meds during the entire session. Despite all of that it was Amazing to play with him. The other musicians involved were Charlie Hayden and Bill Frissell and it was amazing to play with them as well. An all around great time.
You’ve collaborated with a bevy of artists; from Keller Williams, to Dave Matthews and Warren Haynes…even ex-New York Yankee Bernie Williams. What is your most memorable collaboration, live and/or in studio?
My trip to Africa was the most amazing musical experience of my life. ‘Throw Down Your Heart,’ the film and recording captured a lot of it.
In 1995 you were awarded your first Grammy award after numerous nominations dating all the way back to 1986. The album was titled Asleep at the Wheel. Did you know at that time that This was the record that would finally rope in the Grammy?
It was kind of odd actually. All I had done on that recording was play the banjo solo on one track.
Then, most recently, in 2008 you won a Grammy in the Best Pop Instrumental Album category, for your Christmas album, Jingle All the Way. Were you surprised that a holiday themed album would be Grammy worthy?
I think the Holiday recording is one of the best things the Flecktones has recorded, so I wasn't that surprised. But pleased… Yes!
If you could bring a legendry artist back from the dead to play with for one last live performance, who would it be? If they’re too many, feel free to name a few.
I would love to see Chopin play live, Charlie Parker, Miles... lots of ‘em.
You’ve clearly been influenced by past musicians. What are your personal feelings on the modern state of music and Rock & Roll? Is blood still pumping through its veins?
There is always great stuff happening somewhere.
Victor Wooten of the Flecktones is one of the most badass bassists of all time. How did you two find one another?
He actually called me up and played bass over the phone. It was a wonderful surprise. And the rest is history…
You average at least one album per year which is unbelievable for a recording artist. Are ideas constantly flowing through your head that you need to immediately lay down on record?
I am actually quite behind at the moment. I have a huge backlog of tunes and ideas that are waiting for the right group to bring them to life. But I always try to pair the music with a group that will go out and play it, so I have to work that thru and find the right situation.
How has your musical preference changed throughout the years? What direction is it going as you continue your journey in the musical world?
I am moving away from playing fast and complicated for show. I desire more depth to the music now. I want to be moved.
What’s coming up for Bela Fleck and the Flecktones (concerts,albums,etc)? What should we expect?
Well, now that Jeff Coffin is full time with Dave Mathews Band we are exploring other options. One thing we are going to try is doing some dates with Howard Levy, the original fourth guy in the band. He is a ridiculous harmonica and keyboard player. Jeff will also play with us when it makes sense, such as this winter for the holiday tour.
And without the Flecktones…any solo work or other musical collaborations after The Melody of Rhythm tour is complete?
I am doing quite a lot of touring with African artists in February, March and April. Then Melody of Rhythm comes back again to tour throughout June, July and August.
Seems there’s a lot to look forward to. Thank you so much for your time; it’s truly been a pleasure. Good luck on tour!
Thanks Jarrod.
Interview by Jarrod Dicker
Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2009
Monday, November 9, 2009
Interview with MC5's Machinegun Thompson (StayThirsty)
http://www.staythirstymedia.com/200911-039/html/200911-dennis-machine-gun-thompson-int.html
Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary defines a “machine gun” as a gun for sustained rapid fire that uses bullets; broadly: an automatic weapon.
The Rock & Roll Dictionary has a different characterization of the term. It states that a “machinegun” is a drummer from Detroit, Michigan who employs a battering style of rapid, hard strike drumming whom is also a founding member of the legendary Detroit rock group the MC5; broadly: Dennis Thompson.
Apparently Noah Webster had never been to Detroit…
Dennis “Machinegun” Thompson, co-founder of Lincoln Park hero’s The MC5 and now proficient blogger, is a man of many words, sentiments and ideals. Exploding onto the scene in 1964, DMGT became one of the original bad ass drummers of the era. He has held relationships and collaborated on stage with music’s elite, and has conquered all there is to accomplish in the Rock & Roll world.
Now, as he continues his worship of drumming, Dennis has added a new-fangled hobby to his extensive activity catalog: Blogging. Unlike many of the music legends from the ‘60s era, Dennis actually writes his own material and contributes to his blog project consistently. From the tales of playing with the Who, to rolling around and partying in Australia with Ron Asheton, Dennis relays these memorable instances through his own perspective and idiom for all fans and interested parties to enjoy.
Jarrod Dicker sat down with Machinegun to converse about his celebrated musical history with the MC5 and beyond, some upcoming aspirations and projects, his philosophies on life and politics and his current pastime blogging. Let’s Kick Out the Jams!
THIRSTY: Hey Dennis, Jarrod Dicker here from Thirsty magazine. I know you’re going through a tough time (read: Machinegunthompson.com) and I truly appreciate you taking time to speak with me.
MGT: This is sort of a sluggish time for me right now. I took care of my father for ten years. Myself and my wife Patrice took care of him the ten years after my mom died and we had a lot of great times together. It was pretty tough to see him go because he went slowly. I don't wish it upon anybody. It’s tough losing your parents. I'm getting through it.
THIRSTY: Yes I’m sure. But it’s one of those things that are unavoidable I guess.
MGT: It is to be a little trite; the circle of life, but that doesn't matter. When this sort of thing happens it still hurts. I'm a survivor so I will bounce back. He wasn't just my dad; he was my best friend too. I just miss him right now, it’s a big hole. OK Let's Go!
THIRSTY: [chuckle] alright let’s get it going. I’ve read through your entire blog this entire week…twice. It’s incredibly interesting. What I find most interesting is that YOU actually write on your own blog. It seems a lot of these rock and rollers would have someone else do the blogging for them. How did this whole thing get started?
MGT: It got started actually…well…I met Kim Maki from Retrokimmer.com in 2002 on the beach at Silver Lake in Pinckney MI. We met and Kimmer used to be a show promoter. We discussed doing a concert at the State Theater in Detroit (The Fillmore). At the time, Kim had a young daughter and couldn’t commute to the city but she told me that one day she’d find a project that we could do together. Seven years later we found that project, Machinegunthompson.com.
That was a little bit before I went to the Toronto Film Festival to see A True Testimonial when they were out and about doing their premier. Then we kept in touch via email as DKT/MC5 went on World Tours for years up until February 2009. Then one day Kimmer called and we talked on the phone about a new idea she had to collaborate on a “blog” featuring my career. I really wasn't very aware of the blogging world at that time. Kim said don't worry about it let’s go for it. She emailed me the first draft of Machinegun’s Blog on February 22, 2009. It was made out of images and stories that she found on the net. Fans and friends began to find MGT.com and we began our journey into the world wide web and beyond…
Gradually as I began to learn about writing for a blog, I took over writing the majority of the posts. I love it as I have always been a writer. I currently have 2 books in the works, one of them has been in the works for 12 years [laughs] but I'll finish it when the time is right. I'm working on it right now. Another one of the books that I'm working on is a series of philosophical essays, and that one is closer to being done.
THIRSTY: Ah that’s exciting. So you’re expanding beyond your reputation being a world renowned drummer? Go on please…
MGT: So I'm a writer. I've written songs too. Kimmer says “Well would you write something for Machinegunthompson.com?” and I said yeah sure. In the beginning I didn't really want to get into the MC5 and all that, just wanted to see what she could do on her own. She was doing a great job with the materials that she had. To make a long story short I realized that it was a good venue for getting some entertainment and helpful information out there and doing some things that I hadn't done in my life.
THIRSTY: That’s interesting. Is this something that was going to replace you playing music professionally? Or was it just another hobby that you liked, picked up and added to your repertoire of activities in life?
MGT: Well, DKT/MC5 was winding down. And that band no longer is in existence and has been formally disbanded. So I was touring with them since 2003 across the world. We would go out mainly in the summertime. We went out in the winter a few times but that was a mistake as it was terrible traveling, especially by bus. We winded up doing summer festivals, we'd do a festival say in Spain and then we would do 2-3-4 gigs around it. So it would be a 7-10 day trip. We might go out 2-3 times in the summer. So that's what I was doing.
Kim caught me at a time when I was at sort of a crossroads in my life and wondering what I would do next. Maybe I should get back to this book, then this blog thing comes along and it's all about writing. It took me a while to catch on. And then I looked at her blog, RetroKimmer.com, and then and I saw what she was doing, using images, videos and writing stories. And sometimes very informative, sometimes humorous, sometimes...whatever she wanted. Putting pictures out there, this looked like it could be a lot of fun. So my first actual attraction to it was this is going to be entertaining, the more I started to do it, the more I started to like it. What we started to do was take MGT’s blog to different levels. Why don't we interview people? Why don't we write some stories on people that never really quite got their due? Why don't I write about a few of my musician friends that passed on and tell some stories about them and give the fans some background on things they never read or heard before. Because I have a lot of the inside dope on a lot of people. So I have a wealth of background knowledge to write about, especially when it comes to musicians. We've been doing it since February and I guess it’s been as successful as it could be at this point. But I think we established a new niche because I don't think there are any other celebrities out there that are as rabid about what they're doing as we are.
THIRSTY: Absolutely not. And I highly doubt they even do their own blogs as I stated earlier.
MGT: Well they don't because it requires effort, time, study and homework. If I write about something that requires research, I do a little work inside the encyclopedia. If I have to look on Youtube or Facebook or whatever then I'll go and do that homework so I can get that information. We decided to make it a multimedia approach. Hey, let's make it entertaining, let’s make it fun and let’s make it informative. Let's go out into the world and start to film people doing culturally oriented types of things such as artists, painters and musicians. Let’s go out, film them and do interviews. Since I know a lot of people, we started with these people.
THIRSTY: I know that you are currently interested in obtaining your own Sirius Radio program. What would be your goal there? Interviews? Talk radio? Incorporate philosophies and experiences you’ve learned in your life?
MGT: Yes but I’d like to take it a little further, making it a philosophical/political forum. Like take Larry King and take out the bias element and leave it open to the whole spectrum of political thought or philosophical thought. We'd like to interview different celebrities or non celebrities, people that have written books, PEOPLE THAT ARE INTERESTING. When you listen to the MGT show, it’ll be like, “Hey this is cool I can't wait for the next one because it’s always a little bit different.” And maybe throw a little bit of music in there too. I have an eclectic taste in music and I can come up with 350 songs that would involve and entertain the listeners. The people from my generation that don't really get a chance to grow musically because retro rock radio stations that have like a billion songs out there never allow the audience exposure to much of it. And the young people…they don't get exposed to it unless daddy plays it or one of the bigger brothers plays it or he hears it from a friend at school. There's a lot of music they should be exposed to that would enrich their musical lives. So I see this show as being multi-media. We can go out in the street and interview people then come back with a taped interview. Right now the ideas are more open minded to well, where does the journey take us? I always thought that was the way you should approach life.
THIRSTY: Can you elaborate on that philosophy?
MGT: It's about the journey and the end point because I myself have gotten to those end points. I got the record deal, got to play with The Who, got to play with big time performers and celebrities, and I got to go to Australia and Japan. I did all those things. Those are like end points, goals. But once you do it you say to yourself, well what’s next? What do you like to do? This is something that I like to hammer on in MGT’s blog. I am always pushing people to Kick out the Jams and to be your self. Don’t waste your life working at a job that you despise. Always be working on who you are. Find out who you are and then pursue that. Because without the passion...the passion provides the energy, provides the engine to get you there.
THIRSTY: I read that you credit your brother Peter with being one of the biggest internal musical influences in your life. Was he a positive motivator in propelling your musical direction?
MGT: Absolutely. My brother is ten years older than me by two weeks. So when he was fifteen-sixteen, I was five or six and his band, which was mostly an instrumental rock band back in the 50s when Rock and Roll was just being born, would rehearse in the basement. The drummer would always leave the drums there. After he left I would go downstairs and play on the guy's drums and my mother would yell down the steps, “Dennis get off those drums they’re not yours!” Ok MA [laughs]. She would let me play for about ten minutes. She was cool. Eventually my brother “borrowed” my father’s checkbook when I was around seven and we went out and bought this really ugly set of drums for $69. He took the heat from my dad for borrowing the checkbook, and now I had a set of drums. So I would practice with my brother; he played guitar and keyboards. Eventually the family got together musically. My mother was a singer on the radio back in the ‘30s. She developed bronchitis and that killed her career. My sister Donna played keyboards and my dad played the upright bass. But my brother actually encouraged me, and then he did go out and buy a set of gold sparkled Ludwig drums. I don’t know how old I was maybe nine or ten, and that was the real kit. That’s when I started to get really serious. I was playing at weddings when I was 13.
THIRSTY: Wow that must have been incredibly intimidating at such a young age.
MGT: No, I loved it [share a laugh]. It’s just…when it’s in your blood you just go out and do it. Actually it was a blast. That’s how the MC5 started. We started when we were like 14-years old. We played together in a band called the Bounty Hunters, myself and Wayne Kramer first. And it was just three guitars, no bass, drums and we would play instrumentals of the day. Then, Fred Smith was in another band called the Vibratones which were a nemesis band. They had battle of the bands back in those days. I quit the Bounty Hunters and Fred ended up joining the Bounty Hunters. So this band here was a breeding ground of a few of the MC5 players who eventually got together in its current lineup around 1965. Every single one of us (MC5 members), except for Michael Davis, went to Lincoln Park High School. We were all pretty much the same age. Rob Tyner was a little older.
THIRSTY: I read your post when you recollect on the infamous days during the Detroit city riots. You mention John Lee Hooker’s song, “The Motor City’s Burning” and how you guys used to play that song in your set as a “homage to the strife suffered by all victims on both sides.” How accurate was this song in regards to the actual events going on in Detroit at that time?
MGT: That song written by John Lee Hooker was DEAD ON. It tells the story of how it started and what was going on. And the Motor City was burning; I mean it actually was on fire. And there were riots and there were deaths and there were a lot of people being taken to jail. It’s a good thing it didn’t last longer than it did because a lot more of Detroit could have burned down. But the same thing was taking place in a lot of cities around the US as well. So the song, historically, is correct.
THIRSTY: The MC5, Motor City Five, IS Detroit’s rock band. How did you utilize your city while the band was together?
MGT: We had four different band houses. We had one that was in the center of the Beatnik community, down on the Wayne State University Campus area. Number 2 and 3 were in Ann Arbor for a few years. We had two houses that had supported 50 people. And then we had band house number 4 that was in Hamburg, MI. We wanted to get away from Ann Arbor because we just wanted solitude.
THIRSTY: What was your experience growing up in Detroit pre-MC5? How did Motown and other symbolic Detroit musicians influence your style of music and the music you eventually became involved in?
MGT: That music [laughs], that music influenced me TOTALLY. I was a Motown factory junky, you know? All the Motown music that came out I loved because there were so many great bands and the drumming in it was very excellent. I love all the music that came out at that time that had rock and roll or was influenced by rock and roll. So whether it was Duane Eddy or listening to Muddy Waters or the Early Butterfield Blues Band or listening to Motown, all the instrumental bands that existed then, local bands, I just followed it all. I bought records like a teenage girl, you know [share a laugh]? I’d buy these records and learn how to play the beats. I listened to a lot of music. The family would get together around holidays and we’d all play. During Christmas we’d play Christmas music. We’d play and the whole family would be singing these Christmas songs. My taste in music was very homegrown and much influenced by the music that was around me.
THIRSTY: You were stuck in the middle of the whole Vietnam draft fiasco. You actually wrote a HILARIOUS recollection of it which had me laughing out loud while reading it. I know it’s easy to talk about now, 35-40 years later, but how seriously shit scared were you that you might have been drafted?
MGT: It’s all true too. I was shit scared to the 9’s up until the very day I had to go. But it was in the way I prepared for it. There were 2-3 of the other guys from the band that had already been there and they had broken the code on how to do it, how to beat the draft. You would go in there and you would be as anti-establishment as you could. You would just go in there and the idea was to be resistant to everything. Just to make a fuss, to make a noise because what you wanted to do was get to the head shrink. Once you got to the head shrink, the head shrink would interview you and that’s where you really put on the dog. There is a very special question, and that very special question is, “Are you high on drugs right now?” And you MUST say no. So I had all this information from the guys beforehand, so before I went I didn’t wash or bathe for two weeks, I ate LSD everyday, listened to music, I mean I was out there. But I was shit scared because I’ll tell you what, at that point in time the draft, if you got drafted you were going to Vietnam. And I wasn’t the type that was going to make it over there, I wouldn’t have made it. Something would have happened to me. But the bottom line was we wanted to stay back home and work to end the war. That’s what the MC5 wanted to do. I made the decision to quit Wayne State University, which floored my father and made the guys in the band very happy. I had about a little less than 2 years. Once I had made that decision then I had to do it. Yea I was shit scared but the day I went, I was supposed to be there at 7 in the morning …I went at 9 on purpose.
The idea being to front the military authority on every level. I made it to the head shrink’s office in record time. It took about an hour. When I got to the shrink I told him everything. I told him I was queer, back in those days, and took drugs galore, any kind of drugs, and I believed in free love, it didn’t matter if it was a boy or a girl and I loved to do orgies and I hated the army [chuckle]. And I was high on LSD at the time, but I had that LSD awareness because I could wear the mask and play the game. I actually made the shrink break his pencil with one of my answers, I was with this guy for five minutes and then I was told I got a full F and they escorted me out of there. I said in the post on MGT’s blog, I had hot pink pants with the crotch torn off which I yanked just at the right time [haha]. I walked through the office with all these stenographers and all the secretaries with my nuts hanging out! C’mon you can’t get any crazier than that. Down the line I heard from young kids who’d come to us in the dressing room who would come in and say Jesus god tell us, how do we avoid the draft, we don’t want to go to Vietnam and kill people and die. We would tell them here’s what you should do. But as time went on the army would get adapted to this and they would hold people over for three days regardless if they suspected that they were playing a game…if they were playing a game on them or if they were using drugs. And they can and they do and they did hold people for three days. That gives you enough time to get scared. So many, we had so many young men coming into the dressing room outside of the gig or whatever. I had a lot come up to me and ask me, “Den how come you guys got out of the army?” I told them the story, and that’s how we did it. MC5 was very way ahead of its time…kind of a group of misfits.
THIRSTY: I recently interviewed John Sinclair, former manager of the MC5 among other things. How did John’s influence affect the band and you in particular?
MGT: John was an incredible influence on the band in a positive way for I would say a 2-3 year period and then I would say the band’s politics drifted away from John’s politics.
THIRSTY: Yes, that’s what he told me as well.
MGT: There is no animosity on my part, none at all. It’s just that my politics and John’s politics were a complete 180. I did not want to go out in the streets to shoot people to make marijuana legal [haha]. It just didn’t make sense. What happened was the revolution was over in Chicago in Lincoln Park. It ended that day it was done. My personal philosophy is that Nixon knew that all the white, the counterculture white students, mostly students, were using drugs. They were using pot and LSD and whatnot. I think that what they did was just dry up those particular chemicals on the streets and introduced THC and Acid and Heroin. Then everyone, more or less, did what was available and people started doing death drugs, then the revolution just sort of withered away because they were not taking drugs that would open their minds they were taking drugs that would make you want to go to sleep. I think it was that simple really. Then a few people, and the Chicago 7 was treated rather terribly, and people started dying. I think people just got afraid because we were up against a really powerful enemy, the establishment. It wasn’t going to be this glorious revolution where they all changed just because the kids thought they should change. It didn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
THIRSTY: The MC5 was known in the media as being an extremely politically driven, anti-establishment group. Did you agree with this label and, if not, how did you deal with being associated in that way?
MGT: We got tagged by the media as the band of the revolution by Newsweek and Time Magazine and numerous other writers. And then they tagged us as the vanguard of the revolution, sort of what happens to you in the press is that once that’s done it sticks. Rather than try and talk it down and deny it all, which takes a lot of energy and wastes your time, we played into it in the beginning. We didn’t go crazy but we played into it. But the more we played into it, the more serious they got, until we were being followed by the FBI. There are a stack of FBI files that time two feet high of us. The MC5 was considered a danger to the security of the United States. So I think the whole thing was rigged. I think it was real easy to put John in jail again because he had prior arrests. They put John in jail and that sort of disrupted us. We weren’t ready to go our separate ways yet. So we were sort of floundering in that period for a time looking for management. We asked Danny Fields and he turned us down and he winded up managing the Stooges. He favored them over us. It was more his style. We had a hard time finding new management. We hired Dee Anthony. He could have gotten us to a few places but we made some tactical errors and ultimately we were responsible for it, like playing a free concert at the Fillmore. It should have been a normal concert just like the Who would have played, you pay your five bucks and you come and see the band. Bill Graham got smacked in the face, promoter and owner of two Fillmores. He had a lot of clout and he black-balled us. That was not a good thing [haha] at all. All of a sudden, the Boston Tea Party doesn’t want us there and the Chicago Aragon Ballroom didn’t want us. So ultimately what we did was we moved to Europe and Europe embraced us. And we enjoyed living there and playing there. So we just said we’ll recreate ourselves again which is what we did on every album, we recreated our music.
THIRSTY: What do you mean specifically when you say you re-created your music on every album?
MGT: Each one was significantly different than the one prior to it because the band kept going through changes. We were young and fairly creative and five very distinct personalities. As we went through all of this we grew and as we had more time in the recording studio we became better recording artists. Rather than playing live. So as time went on, here we are, we find ourselves in Europe but we have drug problems. It is very difficult to keep a spiritual connection between each other when you’re doing those very heavy death drugs that I talked about before hand. We were doing bad drugs and these drugs to me, personally broke up that band. Everything else that happened to us we survived, and we were still a band. Ultimately the decision to destroy ourselves was done by our own selves.
THIRSTY: But as you’ve stated, every band breaks up eventually right? It’s just a matter of time?
MGT: Yes. Every band breaks up, except for the Rolling Stones [laughter]. Every band has an arc, like a conversation has an arc. Every band has a period. They’ll last five years, they’re going to last 12 years, and they’re going to break up. Because over that period it’s like a marriage, but it’s a marriage with 5 individuals or 4 individuals and things start to fall apart. A band gets to the arc and everybody’s grooving and things are going great, selling records and touring, and fans love ‘em and everybody loves each other. But the next album comes out and it wasn’t quite as good or whatever. The audience isn’t buying it and all of a sudden sales are down and things get harder. Harder to get jobs and the jobs are lesser quality and venues become smaller and then the infighting begins. The drugs pop in, and then one of the women in the band says, “I don’t want my husband doing this anymore.” [haha] I mean they’re a million things that break bands up. It all happens in real time and in real life and it happens today. Nothing’s changed.
THIRSTY: They’re a lot of documented texts -- whether they are books, articles, etc – on the MC5. In your opinion, which one text is the most accurate? Or rather, which one do you think holds the best grasp on what the MC5 was all about?
MGT: I had Professor Matt Bartkowiak do a guest post on MGT’s blog. He wrote a book called MC5 and Social Change which came to be as a result of his dissertation of his Ph.D. Now that book is available as a text book at about 30 universities including University of Michigan, University of Pittsburgh, University of Wisconsin, University of Chicago…so that book is very good and highly recommended. It is one of the best reads about the MC5 and how they actually affected the outside world.
THIRSTY: You have been fortunate to share the stage with notable artists such as the Who, Jimi Hendrix Experience, Cream, Pink Floyd…honestly the list is endless. What do you cherish about collaborating with such legendary artists?
MGT: Many of these stories I have yet to write. Every one of those, those bands that I got to share the stage with were great. They were all very good. There were so many good bands back in that day because I really believe that the bands had a lot of content and a lot to say because of all the things that were happening in the world at that time. There was a world-wide revolution, a Cultural Revolution taking place. There was a very VERY unpopular war going on which was the umbrella for children or students, younger people from all countries to form a united front. And that was, “Let’s end this war, because people were dying.” If they had any time at all to dig into it and find out what it was all about, they knew it. I mean Robert McNamara, Secretary of Defense at the time, finally came out and said in a documentary The Fog and War how it happened. How we wound up in it. Here are the decisions we made. He came clean right before he died…not too long after that. That war I believe was a very magnetic attraction for the cultural movement plus the Black Panthers, plus MLK, plus feminist movement, plus the drugs, experimentation with drugs, and the Dr. Timothy Leary LSD contingent. There were 7-8-10 contingents that all seemed to fly the same banner and the banner was CHANGE. So at that time there was so much at stake.
THIRSTY: Why do you think there were so many good bands at that time? I mean, not just good, but GREAT bands that basically repaved the musical highway and laid down a new and exciting layer to walk upon.
MGT: Why there were so many good bands at that time? I think it was because there was a lot going on. Today there’s not a lot going on. You don’t have much to draw from. Like nowadays there’s a lot gong on, but there’s nobody pointing a gun to your head. There is no draft. If there were a draft right now these kids in college would start to talk [laughs]. Right now they’re safe; they don’t have anything really to worry about. The world’s wars are being fought by mercenaries and stop-loss. Stop-loss are people re-upping and doing 2-3-4, tours which is, if they continue to have these wars, they’re going to run out of people and then a draft could happen. There used to be a peace corps. That was a long time ago when I was younger. The idea of the peace corps was to export knowledge, to export education to third world nations. We really don’t do that anymore. And the money we send over through separate charities etc,etc they barely ever get to the attended destination. It’s sort of partial, this person takes a chunk, this person takes a chunk, and then finally when the cheese does get to Iraq there’s one pound left.
THIRSTY: That’s interesting and proves very true…
MGT: If I was interviewing…I would ask you who is your favorite band today, do you have one? A couple favorite bands?
THIRSTY: Yea…well…I have a problem breaking the new music boundary. And by new music boundary I mean post 1995. There are a couple “newer” bands I can appreciate, but it is absolutely tough to fully submerge myself in this era. That’s why I interview all the legendary and classic artists who played years and decades ago. My obsession and focal interest lies within these classic musicians.
MGT: Do you have a problem with today’s music, with their lack of lyrical exposition and their lack of exploration in the music department? They play the formulaic stuff because they want to make money. No one is willing to go out there and go into different directions. It’s all 1...2...3...4...you know what I mean? It’s like I heard that song a thousand times [haha].
THIRSTY: I absolutely agree. And that is where the difficulty lies in my ability to break through the modern music barrier. I have my exceptions. Most notably Jack White, Derek Trucks, the Gorillaz, the Antlers and a few others.
MGT: Jack White is an exception. It’s like math. N = the number of bands that are exploratory and N = 2. [haha]
THIRSTY: Do you enjoy modern music? Anything specific?
MGT: I listen to it when I’m in the car and I look for new music. I have a lot of young friends and I ask them what’s happening? A lot of it is either hybrid hip-hop or gangster music or it’s techno or it’s what I would say, washed down washed out rock and roll. But I listen to them, they’ll give me stuff and tell me to go to this site and listen to this band. I haven’t heard anything that excites me. I’m not being hypercritical I’m just, I’m a drummer with a lot of background and I’ve studied a lot of different types of music and drummers. I would sort of expect a lot of other people and a lot of other bands, younger bands, would be doing that. You see, there’s no gun to their heads. This is my personal philosophy. Unless there’s something threatening your life, you’re not really going to dig down and defend yourself. These people dug down and really had to defend themselves you see a lot of different lyrics and a lot of different types of music come out. Strangely enough that is the only common dominator I can foresee in that equation. I’m trying to do the math [haha]. I was a math major at Wayne State [chuckle], I’m trying to figure out why there isn’t anything.
THIRSTY: Honestly I think you have something going here…
MGT: I really REALLY understand the early rap music from the earlier days. They’re talking about their environment, they were talking about the lack of opportunity, and they were talking about police brutality. They were talking about how they weren’t getting the sense of entitlement that everyone else gets, to get a good job and education. But now that isn’t the case. I think everybody’s in the same boat. It doesn’t matter who you are, anyone can get laid off. It doesn’t matter what color you are, you can get a good education and a good job I think that it’s all about self-determination and that’s one of the things I like to touch on is “Hey you make your own life, if your parents can’t afford to put you through school then work two jobs, shut up and work two jobs, shut up and do it. QUIT YOUR FUCKING WHINING” [haha].
THIRSTY: It seems you are up to speed with many of the modern innovation in today’s society, especially in the cyber world. What is your take on modern technology and do you think it’s moving too fast?
MGT: I don’t like the technology moving much quicker than human evolution. Technology is moving at light speed and human evolution, the humanitarian end of human evolution, is moving more at the speed of sound... so [laughs]. Technology is taking over and taking the place of human interaction. It really is. You see four people sitting on a park bench and they’re all on the cell phone talking to someone else, rather than having a conversation with each other. I don’t relate and I don’t get it. I mean everybody’s living their lives in a 3D network. Geez guys if you talk to each other, even if you do it on the internet, which I know they’re doing I’m not 100% negative about this not at all. I would just like to see it grow. So that’s the purpose of my blog, ultimately to inform and to help people find themselves, and get involved. Somehow get involved, because no one is going to change the corruption in this country. No one’s going to change the way things are going the way the money works. It’s never gonna happen unless the people get together and do it on their own. That’s how it works with communication. I don’t think they communicate, they have plenty of forums to communicate about topics but it never goes any further than just talk. Americans are at their best when there’s a disaster. All of a sudden everyone comes together. And then it fades fast.
THIRSTY: Yes well, being from New Jersey I can tell you that after the September 11th attacks on the World Trade Center, this area was COMPLETELY unified. There were flags EVERYWHERE. I specifically remember one man who would stand on a median on the highway and wave a flag every day. Days later it continued…then a couple days later it slowed down…then eventually it stopped.
MGT: Yea it’s like everybody’s got A.D.D. you know? Part of what creates that is the way MTV goes 47,000 images per second and what television’s got to offer, which is another thing. These reality shows and lack of anything, really, with any good content unless you’re watching Discovery or A&E, and the video games, and gaming, talking on cell phones all the time. Everything is like, superfast. It’s that’s Andy Warholian 15 minute thing but now it’s down to five minutes. Then you have all these opportunists like Jerry Springer and Oprah who exploit peoples’ miserable lives and miserable situation for ratings. They’re all competing for ratings on misery and fear and negativity... GET WITH IT MOTHERFUCKERS [haha]. I’m so tired of it. You may not be able to change the world, but you can change yourself and you can change your attitude and the way you look at things. This takes effort, this takes work, wake up one morning and say, “Oh I’m a different person”... BULLSHIT! You have to work on it. You can get proactive within your life.
THIRSTY: You had an excellent relationship with Ron Asheton from the Stooges. You two played together in the New Order and the New Race. I read somewhere that the Stooges and the MC5 didn’t really get along. Is this true? And how did you and Ron get so close?
MGT: Well that’s really not true. Myself, Michael Davis and our road manager we were great friends with the Stooges. We would go over their house and hangout, The Funhouse. I watched them from their infancy; I watched one of their first or second rehearsals. I liked them, they were fun, it was more fun to hang out with those guys than to hang out with my band. I thought it was getting a little too political. And I never did like the road we were taking personally. So we used to hang, we used to go over there and drink beers, smoke pot, watch TV, watch the [Three] Stooges on TV and basically have a good time. Iggy would be around sometimes, but mostly he was out doing something else. I would hang out with the Asheton brothers because I really liked Scott and Ron a lot. And then we went our separate ways, and eventually both of us experienced the dark years and then one day a call from Ron Asheton. I was determined after the MC5 broke up to go and continue my musical career so I had a 1967, 427, silver/black hard top Corvette convertible, 290 HP which I sold for $4,200 to finance my trip to LA to continue my career with Ronny’s (New Order) band. The band that he had then, they didn’t even have a name for it. It had Jimmy Recca from the Stooges and had Scott Thurston on the keyboards. Anyway he was in the band, but he was out of the band. So basically it was Ron, Jimmy and me. We lived in one apartment on the Sunset Strip and for a couple of years we ate bean soup. We call it bean soup because that’s what it was. Our manager would make a pot that lasted a week! [haha] I happened to walk past the sports car lot in the neighborhood and I didn’t have a dime in my pocket but I said one day I’m going to own one of those sports cars, one of those classics. We were friends then and when the band broke up we were still friends because it wasn’t our fault that the band broke up.
THIRSTY: Yes I read about the fall of the New Order. It was indeed very tragic and out of your control. To assist the readers, basically David Gilbert was acting front man for the New Order. They were this close to signing with Mercury Records and all they had to do was play for them at one live show just to showcase. It was so easy…but…
MGT: David Gilbert screwed up. If there was a time to NOT get high it was THAT NIGHT. And that was the night he got high. That’s the problem with alcoholics and drug addicts. They get high at the worst possible times. “Time to go see your parole officer, well I think I better get fucked up before.” [haha]. Still well knowing they’re going to go take a piss test and it’ll come back positive. It’s just insane. That’s the nature of alcoholism. So anyway, Dave Gilbert screwed up our whole arrangement. All of us, we were all so poor for so long, and so geeked for getting this deal. We were right there, and they just wanted to see us play live. We couldn’t do it. So we all just split and left each other. That was like ’72-’73. I get another call from Ron in 1981, and he asks if I want to go to Australia with him and Deniz Tek (Radio Birdman). And I said sure. Ron and I roomed together for the 6-8 weeks that we were there and we were great friends. And we had been great friends all along. He was a pleasure to be around. I talk about the fact that he was funny, that he was intelligent, clever and he was fun to hang around with. You can just sit there and watch TV with Ron for 8 hours and you’d be happy because the conversation would always be interesting. Ron was just that way. I really do miss him.
THIRSTY: The New Order played a lot in Los Angeles. I think the name of one of the main venues was The Starwood?
MGT: Yes that’s it. We used to play there occasionally like once every two or three months. We’d play the Troubadour as well.
THIRSTY: Well, at the Starwood I was reading that Van Halen used to be the opening act for you guys. They ended up becoming big…bigger than big. At the time, did you think they were a band that would eventually be selling out stadiums and massive arenas?
MGT: No... No I didn’t think they would. We used to go see them play at a place called Gazarra’s on the strip. They were the house band. They’d play like five nights a week and we would go see them. We thought they were a very good band, we thought they were very tight and had a great drummer, guitar player and vocals but I never did think that they would get to be as big as they got. I had a feeling that they were going to get a deal. They would make waves, but not as big as they eventually did. We saw them a lot in the early days. When it came night time, the guy at the door knew us and we’d go in there for free and have our one beer [laughs] it’s all we could afford and we’d check them out. We used to hang out at the Whisky a Go Go.
THIRSTY: Sounds good. You mentioned before that on your blog, you wanted to highlight musicians and friends of yours that never quite got the attention they deserved. Were you thinking of anyone specific when you mentioned that?
MGT: I was just starting to write a post about Fred Smith. That’s one person that no one has given any attention to. When Fred died (1994), I was sitting down on my couch at the coffee table and I had a spiral notebook and was listening to MC5 music. I had just heard that Fred died. I just wanted to write something about him for myself. Nothing was coming. I was drinking some Jack Daniels and I think I had a few lines of coke, my normal thing back in those days. By the way I’m NINE years clean and sober. I get a call from his wife, Patti Smith, while I’m sitting there, is that serendipity or what? And the bottom line she asked me if I would do the eulogy for Fred’s service at the Mariners Church in downtown Detroit. I had to think for a few seconds. Well that means I HAVE to write something [haha] so I’m thinking oh Christ standing in front of 600 rock and rollers I don’t know...this sounds like a monumental challenge. But I wanted to write something so I told her I would. She told me that Fred wanted me to represent him out of all the other members of the band. He had asked [Patti] on his death bed for Dennis to represent. So I went out and got the third album, High Time, and I opened it up and looked inside the linear notes and saw the picture of Fred in the sonic smith outfit. He had a picture of the world behind him and all of a sudden I had the idea for the story. So I wrote the story which was, I had to write a story rather than talk about his personality. I wrote that he was a man of the future, and he was. That’s going to be a great post. Fred was truly one of those mysterious artistic types. Mysterious in the fact that you never got the answer you expected when you asked him a question. Sometimes you never got an answer at all. He was his own man 100% ,but the bottom line is I haven’t heard or read much about him and I just think it’s time to talk about him in a very positive light.
THIRSTY: That’s very beautiful of you to do. Is there anyone else in mind you’d like to reminisce on?
MGT: I’m going to do the same thing for Rob Tyner. I think people like to know, they want to read about things that they haven’t read about before…Inside stuff. And that’s what I’m going to give them. I’m not going to be a sensationalist tabloid and give out crap. I want to keep it positive and keep it happy. Everybody likes the attitude; everybody likes the posture that we’re taking.
THIRSTY: As stated repeatedly throughout this interview, the MC5 was known for their role in politics and society. How have your political views changed since 1969?
MGT: I’m still not a democrat nor a republican, nor a radical, nor an extremist. I like what Wayne Kramer said in one of his CDs that he’s a citizen of time and space. And I prefer to think of myself as an observer. I don’t espouse any particular creed. The only creed that I espouse is essentially an existential, it’s called existential relativism. It’s basically the pursuit of the knowledge of who am I and how do I relate to the universe. It crosses all political schools of thought. One day I’ll think of things in one certain way and the next day I may change my mind. So I’m open-minded and I’ve kept my open-mindness politically. I was open minded politically back then except I had to go along with the company line. The company line was end the war and sex, drugs and rock & roll. For a time I believed in that but I think I evolved beyond that sooner then everyone else did because I just saw that it just wasn’t going to work that way [haha]. Let’s just write great music and deliver our message in the lyrics. If we had a message, and we did, the second album is actually more political than the first. These were all statements about things that are taking place around us without actually coming out and saying, “End the fucking war and end the draft...dadadadada.” I like to keep it that way, I really do. For anyone to say that they’re a Democrat that means that they just held themselves beholden of all the Democrat’s thoughts. Do you believe in everything they say? Of course you don’t. If you call yourself Republican do you believe everything that the Republicans say and stand for? I doubt it. I think everybody ought to be a little Democratic, a little radical and very open minded. You must look at both sides.
THIRSTY: Absolutely. This strangely reminded me of the ruckus in New York the prior week. I work right near the UN where the whole G20 Summit was taking place. Roads were blocked off; officers were in riot masks it looked like we were back in the 1960’s for god sake. The unnecessary fear they strike into people...
MGT: That’s the point. It was the same thing back in the riots, all the police riots that the MC5 performed at. We performed at three or four of them. How do rocks and bottles stand up against all that fire power? And these guys came in there with three foot batons at Lincoln Park, Chicago when we played at the Democratic convention. We’re on a flat bed truck, halfway through out set and all of a sudden this triangular formation of police on horses start plowing through the back of the crowd with three foot batons swinging them wildly. If anything, the people were throwing rocks and bottles. They had the place SURROUNDED Jarrod, they had helicopters in the air and paddy wagons to line them up. That’s how they treated that musical gathering. No wonder Janice Joplin didn’t show up, no wonder Big Brother didn’t show up or the Stooges and Bob Seger didn’t show up. They didn’t want to get hurt. So we’re still in that same kind of mindset. The government is even worse now with the Patriot Act.
THIRSTY: I know you’re focused on doing the Sirius Satellite Radio show and to promote the growth of MGT’s blog, but are there any musical ventures you’d like to delve into in the near future?
MGT: Yes if the right one comes along. It would have to be people that are my professional peers, with the business acumen and machine that you need already in position. The offer would have to be with the right musicians too. I know how difficult it is to put a band together from scratch. I’m 61, I don’t really have the energy to go and do that right now because I know that a lot of money goes into it as well. Every dime that was made would have to be reinvested and that’s really not a route I want to take right now. But...YES I’m open to the possibility that if the right group of people, or conglomerate of musicians, would say, “Hey Dennis would you want to do a tour?” Then YES I’m wide open to that. I will play with some musicians here in Detroit. Retrokimmer keeps pushing me in that direction, she’s finding my band for me [laughter]. I am going to write about music and I’m going to write about musicians and bands.
THIRSTY: I know why you’re called Machine Gun but whom officially gave you that surname, and if you wouldn’t mind explaining it’s root a little as well?
MGT: I’m fairly sure it was Fred Smith that called me Machine Gun the first time. It was either Fred or Wayne. And the reason it came to be was that there’s a drumming rudiment called the single stroke roll. I used to play it REAL hard and REAL fast. The reason I had to play really hard back in those days because the rest of the boys in the band had these marshal stacks...you’re talking 200 watts. In those days PA systems were just for the vocalists, it didn’t light the drums up. So I had to develop a style like Keith Moon’s and Joe Butler’s to play really hard just to cut through the other music because there was a wall of sound. It was really loud. So I had to develop a style of playing that was hard, brutally hard. I used to have blood blisters and three blisters on one hand and four on the other. I would tape them up and whatever. I would break 15 sticks a set. Bottom line is, I developed...instead of using the second rudiment which is a double stroke roll which is the style Mitch Mitchell used. I reverted to the (attack style) single stroke style and I could play that roll really really fast. So someone says, “You sound like a machine gun.” So then it happened...Machinegun Thompson stuck.
THIRSTY: Are you still the Machinegun? Do you still have the speed?
MGT: I’m better now then I was then. I just finished five years on the road and I’m in great drumming shape. I’m in good physical shape. I go to the gym 3-4 times a week. So I still work out and I still practice. I’M READY TO GO PLAY.
THIRSTY: Well Dennis, it’s truly been a pleasure.
MGT: No, my pleasure Jarrod.
THIRSTY: This is why I do it, to talk to the people that laid down the groundwork and continue to keep on goin’.
MGT: Thank you very much, appreciate it buddy. Have a good day.
THIRSTY: Thank you sir.
Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary defines a “machine gun” as a gun for sustained rapid fire that uses bullets; broadly: an automatic weapon.
The Rock & Roll Dictionary has a different characterization of the term. It states that a “machinegun” is a drummer from Detroit, Michigan who employs a battering style of rapid, hard strike drumming whom is also a founding member of the legendary Detroit rock group the MC5; broadly: Dennis Thompson.
Apparently Noah Webster had never been to Detroit…
Dennis “Machinegun” Thompson, co-founder of Lincoln Park hero’s The MC5 and now proficient blogger, is a man of many words, sentiments and ideals. Exploding onto the scene in 1964, DMGT became one of the original bad ass drummers of the era. He has held relationships and collaborated on stage with music’s elite, and has conquered all there is to accomplish in the Rock & Roll world.
Now, as he continues his worship of drumming, Dennis has added a new-fangled hobby to his extensive activity catalog: Blogging. Unlike many of the music legends from the ‘60s era, Dennis actually writes his own material and contributes to his blog project consistently. From the tales of playing with the Who, to rolling around and partying in Australia with Ron Asheton, Dennis relays these memorable instances through his own perspective and idiom for all fans and interested parties to enjoy.
Jarrod Dicker sat down with Machinegun to converse about his celebrated musical history with the MC5 and beyond, some upcoming aspirations and projects, his philosophies on life and politics and his current pastime blogging. Let’s Kick Out the Jams!
THIRSTY: Hey Dennis, Jarrod Dicker here from Thirsty magazine. I know you’re going through a tough time (read: Machinegunthompson.com) and I truly appreciate you taking time to speak with me.
MGT: This is sort of a sluggish time for me right now. I took care of my father for ten years. Myself and my wife Patrice took care of him the ten years after my mom died and we had a lot of great times together. It was pretty tough to see him go because he went slowly. I don't wish it upon anybody. It’s tough losing your parents. I'm getting through it.
THIRSTY: Yes I’m sure. But it’s one of those things that are unavoidable I guess.
MGT: It is to be a little trite; the circle of life, but that doesn't matter. When this sort of thing happens it still hurts. I'm a survivor so I will bounce back. He wasn't just my dad; he was my best friend too. I just miss him right now, it’s a big hole. OK Let's Go!
THIRSTY: [chuckle] alright let’s get it going. I’ve read through your entire blog this entire week…twice. It’s incredibly interesting. What I find most interesting is that YOU actually write on your own blog. It seems a lot of these rock and rollers would have someone else do the blogging for them. How did this whole thing get started?
MGT: It got started actually…well…I met Kim Maki from Retrokimmer.com in 2002 on the beach at Silver Lake in Pinckney MI. We met and Kimmer used to be a show promoter. We discussed doing a concert at the State Theater in Detroit (The Fillmore). At the time, Kim had a young daughter and couldn’t commute to the city but she told me that one day she’d find a project that we could do together. Seven years later we found that project, Machinegunthompson.com.
That was a little bit before I went to the Toronto Film Festival to see A True Testimonial when they were out and about doing their premier. Then we kept in touch via email as DKT/MC5 went on World Tours for years up until February 2009. Then one day Kimmer called and we talked on the phone about a new idea she had to collaborate on a “blog” featuring my career. I really wasn't very aware of the blogging world at that time. Kim said don't worry about it let’s go for it. She emailed me the first draft of Machinegun’s Blog on February 22, 2009. It was made out of images and stories that she found on the net. Fans and friends began to find MGT.com and we began our journey into the world wide web and beyond…
Gradually as I began to learn about writing for a blog, I took over writing the majority of the posts. I love it as I have always been a writer. I currently have 2 books in the works, one of them has been in the works for 12 years [laughs] but I'll finish it when the time is right. I'm working on it right now. Another one of the books that I'm working on is a series of philosophical essays, and that one is closer to being done.
THIRSTY: Ah that’s exciting. So you’re expanding beyond your reputation being a world renowned drummer? Go on please…
MGT: So I'm a writer. I've written songs too. Kimmer says “Well would you write something for Machinegunthompson.com?” and I said yeah sure. In the beginning I didn't really want to get into the MC5 and all that, just wanted to see what she could do on her own. She was doing a great job with the materials that she had. To make a long story short I realized that it was a good venue for getting some entertainment and helpful information out there and doing some things that I hadn't done in my life.
THIRSTY: That’s interesting. Is this something that was going to replace you playing music professionally? Or was it just another hobby that you liked, picked up and added to your repertoire of activities in life?
MGT: Well, DKT/MC5 was winding down. And that band no longer is in existence and has been formally disbanded. So I was touring with them since 2003 across the world. We would go out mainly in the summertime. We went out in the winter a few times but that was a mistake as it was terrible traveling, especially by bus. We winded up doing summer festivals, we'd do a festival say in Spain and then we would do 2-3-4 gigs around it. So it would be a 7-10 day trip. We might go out 2-3 times in the summer. So that's what I was doing.
Kim caught me at a time when I was at sort of a crossroads in my life and wondering what I would do next. Maybe I should get back to this book, then this blog thing comes along and it's all about writing. It took me a while to catch on. And then I looked at her blog, RetroKimmer.com, and then and I saw what she was doing, using images, videos and writing stories. And sometimes very informative, sometimes humorous, sometimes...whatever she wanted. Putting pictures out there, this looked like it could be a lot of fun. So my first actual attraction to it was this is going to be entertaining, the more I started to do it, the more I started to like it. What we started to do was take MGT’s blog to different levels. Why don't we interview people? Why don't we write some stories on people that never really quite got their due? Why don't I write about a few of my musician friends that passed on and tell some stories about them and give the fans some background on things they never read or heard before. Because I have a lot of the inside dope on a lot of people. So I have a wealth of background knowledge to write about, especially when it comes to musicians. We've been doing it since February and I guess it’s been as successful as it could be at this point. But I think we established a new niche because I don't think there are any other celebrities out there that are as rabid about what they're doing as we are.
THIRSTY: Absolutely not. And I highly doubt they even do their own blogs as I stated earlier.
MGT: Well they don't because it requires effort, time, study and homework. If I write about something that requires research, I do a little work inside the encyclopedia. If I have to look on Youtube or Facebook or whatever then I'll go and do that homework so I can get that information. We decided to make it a multimedia approach. Hey, let's make it entertaining, let’s make it fun and let’s make it informative. Let's go out into the world and start to film people doing culturally oriented types of things such as artists, painters and musicians. Let’s go out, film them and do interviews. Since I know a lot of people, we started with these people.
THIRSTY: I know that you are currently interested in obtaining your own Sirius Radio program. What would be your goal there? Interviews? Talk radio? Incorporate philosophies and experiences you’ve learned in your life?
MGT: Yes but I’d like to take it a little further, making it a philosophical/political forum. Like take Larry King and take out the bias element and leave it open to the whole spectrum of political thought or philosophical thought. We'd like to interview different celebrities or non celebrities, people that have written books, PEOPLE THAT ARE INTERESTING. When you listen to the MGT show, it’ll be like, “Hey this is cool I can't wait for the next one because it’s always a little bit different.” And maybe throw a little bit of music in there too. I have an eclectic taste in music and I can come up with 350 songs that would involve and entertain the listeners. The people from my generation that don't really get a chance to grow musically because retro rock radio stations that have like a billion songs out there never allow the audience exposure to much of it. And the young people…they don't get exposed to it unless daddy plays it or one of the bigger brothers plays it or he hears it from a friend at school. There's a lot of music they should be exposed to that would enrich their musical lives. So I see this show as being multi-media. We can go out in the street and interview people then come back with a taped interview. Right now the ideas are more open minded to well, where does the journey take us? I always thought that was the way you should approach life.
THIRSTY: Can you elaborate on that philosophy?
MGT: It's about the journey and the end point because I myself have gotten to those end points. I got the record deal, got to play with The Who, got to play with big time performers and celebrities, and I got to go to Australia and Japan. I did all those things. Those are like end points, goals. But once you do it you say to yourself, well what’s next? What do you like to do? This is something that I like to hammer on in MGT’s blog. I am always pushing people to Kick out the Jams and to be your self. Don’t waste your life working at a job that you despise. Always be working on who you are. Find out who you are and then pursue that. Because without the passion...the passion provides the energy, provides the engine to get you there.
THIRSTY: I read that you credit your brother Peter with being one of the biggest internal musical influences in your life. Was he a positive motivator in propelling your musical direction?
MGT: Absolutely. My brother is ten years older than me by two weeks. So when he was fifteen-sixteen, I was five or six and his band, which was mostly an instrumental rock band back in the 50s when Rock and Roll was just being born, would rehearse in the basement. The drummer would always leave the drums there. After he left I would go downstairs and play on the guy's drums and my mother would yell down the steps, “Dennis get off those drums they’re not yours!” Ok MA [laughs]. She would let me play for about ten minutes. She was cool. Eventually my brother “borrowed” my father’s checkbook when I was around seven and we went out and bought this really ugly set of drums for $69. He took the heat from my dad for borrowing the checkbook, and now I had a set of drums. So I would practice with my brother; he played guitar and keyboards. Eventually the family got together musically. My mother was a singer on the radio back in the ‘30s. She developed bronchitis and that killed her career. My sister Donna played keyboards and my dad played the upright bass. But my brother actually encouraged me, and then he did go out and buy a set of gold sparkled Ludwig drums. I don’t know how old I was maybe nine or ten, and that was the real kit. That’s when I started to get really serious. I was playing at weddings when I was 13.
THIRSTY: Wow that must have been incredibly intimidating at such a young age.
MGT: No, I loved it [share a laugh]. It’s just…when it’s in your blood you just go out and do it. Actually it was a blast. That’s how the MC5 started. We started when we were like 14-years old. We played together in a band called the Bounty Hunters, myself and Wayne Kramer first. And it was just three guitars, no bass, drums and we would play instrumentals of the day. Then, Fred Smith was in another band called the Vibratones which were a nemesis band. They had battle of the bands back in those days. I quit the Bounty Hunters and Fred ended up joining the Bounty Hunters. So this band here was a breeding ground of a few of the MC5 players who eventually got together in its current lineup around 1965. Every single one of us (MC5 members), except for Michael Davis, went to Lincoln Park High School. We were all pretty much the same age. Rob Tyner was a little older.
THIRSTY: I read your post when you recollect on the infamous days during the Detroit city riots. You mention John Lee Hooker’s song, “The Motor City’s Burning” and how you guys used to play that song in your set as a “homage to the strife suffered by all victims on both sides.” How accurate was this song in regards to the actual events going on in Detroit at that time?
MGT: That song written by John Lee Hooker was DEAD ON. It tells the story of how it started and what was going on. And the Motor City was burning; I mean it actually was on fire. And there were riots and there were deaths and there were a lot of people being taken to jail. It’s a good thing it didn’t last longer than it did because a lot more of Detroit could have burned down. But the same thing was taking place in a lot of cities around the US as well. So the song, historically, is correct.
THIRSTY: The MC5, Motor City Five, IS Detroit’s rock band. How did you utilize your city while the band was together?
MGT: We had four different band houses. We had one that was in the center of the Beatnik community, down on the Wayne State University Campus area. Number 2 and 3 were in Ann Arbor for a few years. We had two houses that had supported 50 people. And then we had band house number 4 that was in Hamburg, MI. We wanted to get away from Ann Arbor because we just wanted solitude.
THIRSTY: What was your experience growing up in Detroit pre-MC5? How did Motown and other symbolic Detroit musicians influence your style of music and the music you eventually became involved in?
MGT: That music [laughs], that music influenced me TOTALLY. I was a Motown factory junky, you know? All the Motown music that came out I loved because there were so many great bands and the drumming in it was very excellent. I love all the music that came out at that time that had rock and roll or was influenced by rock and roll. So whether it was Duane Eddy or listening to Muddy Waters or the Early Butterfield Blues Band or listening to Motown, all the instrumental bands that existed then, local bands, I just followed it all. I bought records like a teenage girl, you know [share a laugh]? I’d buy these records and learn how to play the beats. I listened to a lot of music. The family would get together around holidays and we’d all play. During Christmas we’d play Christmas music. We’d play and the whole family would be singing these Christmas songs. My taste in music was very homegrown and much influenced by the music that was around me.
THIRSTY: You were stuck in the middle of the whole Vietnam draft fiasco. You actually wrote a HILARIOUS recollection of it which had me laughing out loud while reading it. I know it’s easy to talk about now, 35-40 years later, but how seriously shit scared were you that you might have been drafted?
MGT: It’s all true too. I was shit scared to the 9’s up until the very day I had to go. But it was in the way I prepared for it. There were 2-3 of the other guys from the band that had already been there and they had broken the code on how to do it, how to beat the draft. You would go in there and you would be as anti-establishment as you could. You would just go in there and the idea was to be resistant to everything. Just to make a fuss, to make a noise because what you wanted to do was get to the head shrink. Once you got to the head shrink, the head shrink would interview you and that’s where you really put on the dog. There is a very special question, and that very special question is, “Are you high on drugs right now?” And you MUST say no. So I had all this information from the guys beforehand, so before I went I didn’t wash or bathe for two weeks, I ate LSD everyday, listened to music, I mean I was out there. But I was shit scared because I’ll tell you what, at that point in time the draft, if you got drafted you were going to Vietnam. And I wasn’t the type that was going to make it over there, I wouldn’t have made it. Something would have happened to me. But the bottom line was we wanted to stay back home and work to end the war. That’s what the MC5 wanted to do. I made the decision to quit Wayne State University, which floored my father and made the guys in the band very happy. I had about a little less than 2 years. Once I had made that decision then I had to do it. Yea I was shit scared but the day I went, I was supposed to be there at 7 in the morning …I went at 9 on purpose.
The idea being to front the military authority on every level. I made it to the head shrink’s office in record time. It took about an hour. When I got to the shrink I told him everything. I told him I was queer, back in those days, and took drugs galore, any kind of drugs, and I believed in free love, it didn’t matter if it was a boy or a girl and I loved to do orgies and I hated the army [chuckle]. And I was high on LSD at the time, but I had that LSD awareness because I could wear the mask and play the game. I actually made the shrink break his pencil with one of my answers, I was with this guy for five minutes and then I was told I got a full F and they escorted me out of there. I said in the post on MGT’s blog, I had hot pink pants with the crotch torn off which I yanked just at the right time [haha]. I walked through the office with all these stenographers and all the secretaries with my nuts hanging out! C’mon you can’t get any crazier than that. Down the line I heard from young kids who’d come to us in the dressing room who would come in and say Jesus god tell us, how do we avoid the draft, we don’t want to go to Vietnam and kill people and die. We would tell them here’s what you should do. But as time went on the army would get adapted to this and they would hold people over for three days regardless if they suspected that they were playing a game…if they were playing a game on them or if they were using drugs. And they can and they do and they did hold people for three days. That gives you enough time to get scared. So many, we had so many young men coming into the dressing room outside of the gig or whatever. I had a lot come up to me and ask me, “Den how come you guys got out of the army?” I told them the story, and that’s how we did it. MC5 was very way ahead of its time…kind of a group of misfits.
THIRSTY: I recently interviewed John Sinclair, former manager of the MC5 among other things. How did John’s influence affect the band and you in particular?
MGT: John was an incredible influence on the band in a positive way for I would say a 2-3 year period and then I would say the band’s politics drifted away from John’s politics.
THIRSTY: Yes, that’s what he told me as well.
MGT: There is no animosity on my part, none at all. It’s just that my politics and John’s politics were a complete 180. I did not want to go out in the streets to shoot people to make marijuana legal [haha]. It just didn’t make sense. What happened was the revolution was over in Chicago in Lincoln Park. It ended that day it was done. My personal philosophy is that Nixon knew that all the white, the counterculture white students, mostly students, were using drugs. They were using pot and LSD and whatnot. I think that what they did was just dry up those particular chemicals on the streets and introduced THC and Acid and Heroin. Then everyone, more or less, did what was available and people started doing death drugs, then the revolution just sort of withered away because they were not taking drugs that would open their minds they were taking drugs that would make you want to go to sleep. I think it was that simple really. Then a few people, and the Chicago 7 was treated rather terribly, and people started dying. I think people just got afraid because we were up against a really powerful enemy, the establishment. It wasn’t going to be this glorious revolution where they all changed just because the kids thought they should change. It didn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
THIRSTY: The MC5 was known in the media as being an extremely politically driven, anti-establishment group. Did you agree with this label and, if not, how did you deal with being associated in that way?
MGT: We got tagged by the media as the band of the revolution by Newsweek and Time Magazine and numerous other writers. And then they tagged us as the vanguard of the revolution, sort of what happens to you in the press is that once that’s done it sticks. Rather than try and talk it down and deny it all, which takes a lot of energy and wastes your time, we played into it in the beginning. We didn’t go crazy but we played into it. But the more we played into it, the more serious they got, until we were being followed by the FBI. There are a stack of FBI files that time two feet high of us. The MC5 was considered a danger to the security of the United States. So I think the whole thing was rigged. I think it was real easy to put John in jail again because he had prior arrests. They put John in jail and that sort of disrupted us. We weren’t ready to go our separate ways yet. So we were sort of floundering in that period for a time looking for management. We asked Danny Fields and he turned us down and he winded up managing the Stooges. He favored them over us. It was more his style. We had a hard time finding new management. We hired Dee Anthony. He could have gotten us to a few places but we made some tactical errors and ultimately we were responsible for it, like playing a free concert at the Fillmore. It should have been a normal concert just like the Who would have played, you pay your five bucks and you come and see the band. Bill Graham got smacked in the face, promoter and owner of two Fillmores. He had a lot of clout and he black-balled us. That was not a good thing [haha] at all. All of a sudden, the Boston Tea Party doesn’t want us there and the Chicago Aragon Ballroom didn’t want us. So ultimately what we did was we moved to Europe and Europe embraced us. And we enjoyed living there and playing there. So we just said we’ll recreate ourselves again which is what we did on every album, we recreated our music.
THIRSTY: What do you mean specifically when you say you re-created your music on every album?
MGT: Each one was significantly different than the one prior to it because the band kept going through changes. We were young and fairly creative and five very distinct personalities. As we went through all of this we grew and as we had more time in the recording studio we became better recording artists. Rather than playing live. So as time went on, here we are, we find ourselves in Europe but we have drug problems. It is very difficult to keep a spiritual connection between each other when you’re doing those very heavy death drugs that I talked about before hand. We were doing bad drugs and these drugs to me, personally broke up that band. Everything else that happened to us we survived, and we were still a band. Ultimately the decision to destroy ourselves was done by our own selves.
THIRSTY: But as you’ve stated, every band breaks up eventually right? It’s just a matter of time?
MGT: Yes. Every band breaks up, except for the Rolling Stones [laughter]. Every band has an arc, like a conversation has an arc. Every band has a period. They’ll last five years, they’re going to last 12 years, and they’re going to break up. Because over that period it’s like a marriage, but it’s a marriage with 5 individuals or 4 individuals and things start to fall apart. A band gets to the arc and everybody’s grooving and things are going great, selling records and touring, and fans love ‘em and everybody loves each other. But the next album comes out and it wasn’t quite as good or whatever. The audience isn’t buying it and all of a sudden sales are down and things get harder. Harder to get jobs and the jobs are lesser quality and venues become smaller and then the infighting begins. The drugs pop in, and then one of the women in the band says, “I don’t want my husband doing this anymore.” [haha] I mean they’re a million things that break bands up. It all happens in real time and in real life and it happens today. Nothing’s changed.
THIRSTY: They’re a lot of documented texts -- whether they are books, articles, etc – on the MC5. In your opinion, which one text is the most accurate? Or rather, which one do you think holds the best grasp on what the MC5 was all about?
MGT: I had Professor Matt Bartkowiak do a guest post on MGT’s blog. He wrote a book called MC5 and Social Change which came to be as a result of his dissertation of his Ph.D. Now that book is available as a text book at about 30 universities including University of Michigan, University of Pittsburgh, University of Wisconsin, University of Chicago…so that book is very good and highly recommended. It is one of the best reads about the MC5 and how they actually affected the outside world.
THIRSTY: You have been fortunate to share the stage with notable artists such as the Who, Jimi Hendrix Experience, Cream, Pink Floyd…honestly the list is endless. What do you cherish about collaborating with such legendary artists?
MGT: Many of these stories I have yet to write. Every one of those, those bands that I got to share the stage with were great. They were all very good. There were so many good bands back in that day because I really believe that the bands had a lot of content and a lot to say because of all the things that were happening in the world at that time. There was a world-wide revolution, a Cultural Revolution taking place. There was a very VERY unpopular war going on which was the umbrella for children or students, younger people from all countries to form a united front. And that was, “Let’s end this war, because people were dying.” If they had any time at all to dig into it and find out what it was all about, they knew it. I mean Robert McNamara, Secretary of Defense at the time, finally came out and said in a documentary The Fog and War how it happened. How we wound up in it. Here are the decisions we made. He came clean right before he died…not too long after that. That war I believe was a very magnetic attraction for the cultural movement plus the Black Panthers, plus MLK, plus feminist movement, plus the drugs, experimentation with drugs, and the Dr. Timothy Leary LSD contingent. There were 7-8-10 contingents that all seemed to fly the same banner and the banner was CHANGE. So at that time there was so much at stake.
THIRSTY: Why do you think there were so many good bands at that time? I mean, not just good, but GREAT bands that basically repaved the musical highway and laid down a new and exciting layer to walk upon.
MGT: Why there were so many good bands at that time? I think it was because there was a lot going on. Today there’s not a lot going on. You don’t have much to draw from. Like nowadays there’s a lot gong on, but there’s nobody pointing a gun to your head. There is no draft. If there were a draft right now these kids in college would start to talk [laughs]. Right now they’re safe; they don’t have anything really to worry about. The world’s wars are being fought by mercenaries and stop-loss. Stop-loss are people re-upping and doing 2-3-4, tours which is, if they continue to have these wars, they’re going to run out of people and then a draft could happen. There used to be a peace corps. That was a long time ago when I was younger. The idea of the peace corps was to export knowledge, to export education to third world nations. We really don’t do that anymore. And the money we send over through separate charities etc,etc they barely ever get to the attended destination. It’s sort of partial, this person takes a chunk, this person takes a chunk, and then finally when the cheese does get to Iraq there’s one pound left.
THIRSTY: That’s interesting and proves very true…
MGT: If I was interviewing…I would ask you who is your favorite band today, do you have one? A couple favorite bands?
THIRSTY: Yea…well…I have a problem breaking the new music boundary. And by new music boundary I mean post 1995. There are a couple “newer” bands I can appreciate, but it is absolutely tough to fully submerge myself in this era. That’s why I interview all the legendary and classic artists who played years and decades ago. My obsession and focal interest lies within these classic musicians.
MGT: Do you have a problem with today’s music, with their lack of lyrical exposition and their lack of exploration in the music department? They play the formulaic stuff because they want to make money. No one is willing to go out there and go into different directions. It’s all 1...2...3...4...you know what I mean? It’s like I heard that song a thousand times [haha].
THIRSTY: I absolutely agree. And that is where the difficulty lies in my ability to break through the modern music barrier. I have my exceptions. Most notably Jack White, Derek Trucks, the Gorillaz, the Antlers and a few others.
MGT: Jack White is an exception. It’s like math. N = the number of bands that are exploratory and N = 2. [haha]
THIRSTY: Do you enjoy modern music? Anything specific?
MGT: I listen to it when I’m in the car and I look for new music. I have a lot of young friends and I ask them what’s happening? A lot of it is either hybrid hip-hop or gangster music or it’s techno or it’s what I would say, washed down washed out rock and roll. But I listen to them, they’ll give me stuff and tell me to go to this site and listen to this band. I haven’t heard anything that excites me. I’m not being hypercritical I’m just, I’m a drummer with a lot of background and I’ve studied a lot of different types of music and drummers. I would sort of expect a lot of other people and a lot of other bands, younger bands, would be doing that. You see, there’s no gun to their heads. This is my personal philosophy. Unless there’s something threatening your life, you’re not really going to dig down and defend yourself. These people dug down and really had to defend themselves you see a lot of different lyrics and a lot of different types of music come out. Strangely enough that is the only common dominator I can foresee in that equation. I’m trying to do the math [haha]. I was a math major at Wayne State [chuckle], I’m trying to figure out why there isn’t anything.
THIRSTY: Honestly I think you have something going here…
MGT: I really REALLY understand the early rap music from the earlier days. They’re talking about their environment, they were talking about the lack of opportunity, and they were talking about police brutality. They were talking about how they weren’t getting the sense of entitlement that everyone else gets, to get a good job and education. But now that isn’t the case. I think everybody’s in the same boat. It doesn’t matter who you are, anyone can get laid off. It doesn’t matter what color you are, you can get a good education and a good job I think that it’s all about self-determination and that’s one of the things I like to touch on is “Hey you make your own life, if your parents can’t afford to put you through school then work two jobs, shut up and work two jobs, shut up and do it. QUIT YOUR FUCKING WHINING” [haha].
THIRSTY: It seems you are up to speed with many of the modern innovation in today’s society, especially in the cyber world. What is your take on modern technology and do you think it’s moving too fast?
MGT: I don’t like the technology moving much quicker than human evolution. Technology is moving at light speed and human evolution, the humanitarian end of human evolution, is moving more at the speed of sound... so [laughs]. Technology is taking over and taking the place of human interaction. It really is. You see four people sitting on a park bench and they’re all on the cell phone talking to someone else, rather than having a conversation with each other. I don’t relate and I don’t get it. I mean everybody’s living their lives in a 3D network. Geez guys if you talk to each other, even if you do it on the internet, which I know they’re doing I’m not 100% negative about this not at all. I would just like to see it grow. So that’s the purpose of my blog, ultimately to inform and to help people find themselves, and get involved. Somehow get involved, because no one is going to change the corruption in this country. No one’s going to change the way things are going the way the money works. It’s never gonna happen unless the people get together and do it on their own. That’s how it works with communication. I don’t think they communicate, they have plenty of forums to communicate about topics but it never goes any further than just talk. Americans are at their best when there’s a disaster. All of a sudden everyone comes together. And then it fades fast.
THIRSTY: Yes well, being from New Jersey I can tell you that after the September 11th attacks on the World Trade Center, this area was COMPLETELY unified. There were flags EVERYWHERE. I specifically remember one man who would stand on a median on the highway and wave a flag every day. Days later it continued…then a couple days later it slowed down…then eventually it stopped.
MGT: Yea it’s like everybody’s got A.D.D. you know? Part of what creates that is the way MTV goes 47,000 images per second and what television’s got to offer, which is another thing. These reality shows and lack of anything, really, with any good content unless you’re watching Discovery or A&E, and the video games, and gaming, talking on cell phones all the time. Everything is like, superfast. It’s that’s Andy Warholian 15 minute thing but now it’s down to five minutes. Then you have all these opportunists like Jerry Springer and Oprah who exploit peoples’ miserable lives and miserable situation for ratings. They’re all competing for ratings on misery and fear and negativity... GET WITH IT MOTHERFUCKERS [haha]. I’m so tired of it. You may not be able to change the world, but you can change yourself and you can change your attitude and the way you look at things. This takes effort, this takes work, wake up one morning and say, “Oh I’m a different person”... BULLSHIT! You have to work on it. You can get proactive within your life.
THIRSTY: You had an excellent relationship with Ron Asheton from the Stooges. You two played together in the New Order and the New Race. I read somewhere that the Stooges and the MC5 didn’t really get along. Is this true? And how did you and Ron get so close?
MGT: Well that’s really not true. Myself, Michael Davis and our road manager we were great friends with the Stooges. We would go over their house and hangout, The Funhouse. I watched them from their infancy; I watched one of their first or second rehearsals. I liked them, they were fun, it was more fun to hang out with those guys than to hang out with my band. I thought it was getting a little too political. And I never did like the road we were taking personally. So we used to hang, we used to go over there and drink beers, smoke pot, watch TV, watch the [Three] Stooges on TV and basically have a good time. Iggy would be around sometimes, but mostly he was out doing something else. I would hang out with the Asheton brothers because I really liked Scott and Ron a lot. And then we went our separate ways, and eventually both of us experienced the dark years and then one day a call from Ron Asheton. I was determined after the MC5 broke up to go and continue my musical career so I had a 1967, 427, silver/black hard top Corvette convertible, 290 HP which I sold for $4,200 to finance my trip to LA to continue my career with Ronny’s (New Order) band. The band that he had then, they didn’t even have a name for it. It had Jimmy Recca from the Stooges and had Scott Thurston on the keyboards. Anyway he was in the band, but he was out of the band. So basically it was Ron, Jimmy and me. We lived in one apartment on the Sunset Strip and for a couple of years we ate bean soup. We call it bean soup because that’s what it was. Our manager would make a pot that lasted a week! [haha] I happened to walk past the sports car lot in the neighborhood and I didn’t have a dime in my pocket but I said one day I’m going to own one of those sports cars, one of those classics. We were friends then and when the band broke up we were still friends because it wasn’t our fault that the band broke up.
THIRSTY: Yes I read about the fall of the New Order. It was indeed very tragic and out of your control. To assist the readers, basically David Gilbert was acting front man for the New Order. They were this close to signing with Mercury Records and all they had to do was play for them at one live show just to showcase. It was so easy…but…
MGT: David Gilbert screwed up. If there was a time to NOT get high it was THAT NIGHT. And that was the night he got high. That’s the problem with alcoholics and drug addicts. They get high at the worst possible times. “Time to go see your parole officer, well I think I better get fucked up before.” [haha]. Still well knowing they’re going to go take a piss test and it’ll come back positive. It’s just insane. That’s the nature of alcoholism. So anyway, Dave Gilbert screwed up our whole arrangement. All of us, we were all so poor for so long, and so geeked for getting this deal. We were right there, and they just wanted to see us play live. We couldn’t do it. So we all just split and left each other. That was like ’72-’73. I get another call from Ron in 1981, and he asks if I want to go to Australia with him and Deniz Tek (Radio Birdman). And I said sure. Ron and I roomed together for the 6-8 weeks that we were there and we were great friends. And we had been great friends all along. He was a pleasure to be around. I talk about the fact that he was funny, that he was intelligent, clever and he was fun to hang around with. You can just sit there and watch TV with Ron for 8 hours and you’d be happy because the conversation would always be interesting. Ron was just that way. I really do miss him.
THIRSTY: The New Order played a lot in Los Angeles. I think the name of one of the main venues was The Starwood?
MGT: Yes that’s it. We used to play there occasionally like once every two or three months. We’d play the Troubadour as well.
THIRSTY: Well, at the Starwood I was reading that Van Halen used to be the opening act for you guys. They ended up becoming big…bigger than big. At the time, did you think they were a band that would eventually be selling out stadiums and massive arenas?
MGT: No... No I didn’t think they would. We used to go see them play at a place called Gazarra’s on the strip. They were the house band. They’d play like five nights a week and we would go see them. We thought they were a very good band, we thought they were very tight and had a great drummer, guitar player and vocals but I never did think that they would get to be as big as they got. I had a feeling that they were going to get a deal. They would make waves, but not as big as they eventually did. We saw them a lot in the early days. When it came night time, the guy at the door knew us and we’d go in there for free and have our one beer [laughs] it’s all we could afford and we’d check them out. We used to hang out at the Whisky a Go Go.
THIRSTY: Sounds good. You mentioned before that on your blog, you wanted to highlight musicians and friends of yours that never quite got the attention they deserved. Were you thinking of anyone specific when you mentioned that?
MGT: I was just starting to write a post about Fred Smith. That’s one person that no one has given any attention to. When Fred died (1994), I was sitting down on my couch at the coffee table and I had a spiral notebook and was listening to MC5 music. I had just heard that Fred died. I just wanted to write something about him for myself. Nothing was coming. I was drinking some Jack Daniels and I think I had a few lines of coke, my normal thing back in those days. By the way I’m NINE years clean and sober. I get a call from his wife, Patti Smith, while I’m sitting there, is that serendipity or what? And the bottom line she asked me if I would do the eulogy for Fred’s service at the Mariners Church in downtown Detroit. I had to think for a few seconds. Well that means I HAVE to write something [haha] so I’m thinking oh Christ standing in front of 600 rock and rollers I don’t know...this sounds like a monumental challenge. But I wanted to write something so I told her I would. She told me that Fred wanted me to represent him out of all the other members of the band. He had asked [Patti] on his death bed for Dennis to represent. So I went out and got the third album, High Time, and I opened it up and looked inside the linear notes and saw the picture of Fred in the sonic smith outfit. He had a picture of the world behind him and all of a sudden I had the idea for the story. So I wrote the story which was, I had to write a story rather than talk about his personality. I wrote that he was a man of the future, and he was. That’s going to be a great post. Fred was truly one of those mysterious artistic types. Mysterious in the fact that you never got the answer you expected when you asked him a question. Sometimes you never got an answer at all. He was his own man 100% ,but the bottom line is I haven’t heard or read much about him and I just think it’s time to talk about him in a very positive light.
THIRSTY: That’s very beautiful of you to do. Is there anyone else in mind you’d like to reminisce on?
MGT: I’m going to do the same thing for Rob Tyner. I think people like to know, they want to read about things that they haven’t read about before…Inside stuff. And that’s what I’m going to give them. I’m not going to be a sensationalist tabloid and give out crap. I want to keep it positive and keep it happy. Everybody likes the attitude; everybody likes the posture that we’re taking.
THIRSTY: As stated repeatedly throughout this interview, the MC5 was known for their role in politics and society. How have your political views changed since 1969?
MGT: I’m still not a democrat nor a republican, nor a radical, nor an extremist. I like what Wayne Kramer said in one of his CDs that he’s a citizen of time and space. And I prefer to think of myself as an observer. I don’t espouse any particular creed. The only creed that I espouse is essentially an existential, it’s called existential relativism. It’s basically the pursuit of the knowledge of who am I and how do I relate to the universe. It crosses all political schools of thought. One day I’ll think of things in one certain way and the next day I may change my mind. So I’m open-minded and I’ve kept my open-mindness politically. I was open minded politically back then except I had to go along with the company line. The company line was end the war and sex, drugs and rock & roll. For a time I believed in that but I think I evolved beyond that sooner then everyone else did because I just saw that it just wasn’t going to work that way [haha]. Let’s just write great music and deliver our message in the lyrics. If we had a message, and we did, the second album is actually more political than the first. These were all statements about things that are taking place around us without actually coming out and saying, “End the fucking war and end the draft...dadadadada.” I like to keep it that way, I really do. For anyone to say that they’re a Democrat that means that they just held themselves beholden of all the Democrat’s thoughts. Do you believe in everything they say? Of course you don’t. If you call yourself Republican do you believe everything that the Republicans say and stand for? I doubt it. I think everybody ought to be a little Democratic, a little radical and very open minded. You must look at both sides.
THIRSTY: Absolutely. This strangely reminded me of the ruckus in New York the prior week. I work right near the UN where the whole G20 Summit was taking place. Roads were blocked off; officers were in riot masks it looked like we were back in the 1960’s for god sake. The unnecessary fear they strike into people...
MGT: That’s the point. It was the same thing back in the riots, all the police riots that the MC5 performed at. We performed at three or four of them. How do rocks and bottles stand up against all that fire power? And these guys came in there with three foot batons at Lincoln Park, Chicago when we played at the Democratic convention. We’re on a flat bed truck, halfway through out set and all of a sudden this triangular formation of police on horses start plowing through the back of the crowd with three foot batons swinging them wildly. If anything, the people were throwing rocks and bottles. They had the place SURROUNDED Jarrod, they had helicopters in the air and paddy wagons to line them up. That’s how they treated that musical gathering. No wonder Janice Joplin didn’t show up, no wonder Big Brother didn’t show up or the Stooges and Bob Seger didn’t show up. They didn’t want to get hurt. So we’re still in that same kind of mindset. The government is even worse now with the Patriot Act.
THIRSTY: I know you’re focused on doing the Sirius Satellite Radio show and to promote the growth of MGT’s blog, but are there any musical ventures you’d like to delve into in the near future?
MGT: Yes if the right one comes along. It would have to be people that are my professional peers, with the business acumen and machine that you need already in position. The offer would have to be with the right musicians too. I know how difficult it is to put a band together from scratch. I’m 61, I don’t really have the energy to go and do that right now because I know that a lot of money goes into it as well. Every dime that was made would have to be reinvested and that’s really not a route I want to take right now. But...YES I’m open to the possibility that if the right group of people, or conglomerate of musicians, would say, “Hey Dennis would you want to do a tour?” Then YES I’m wide open to that. I will play with some musicians here in Detroit. Retrokimmer keeps pushing me in that direction, she’s finding my band for me [laughter]. I am going to write about music and I’m going to write about musicians and bands.
THIRSTY: I know why you’re called Machine Gun but whom officially gave you that surname, and if you wouldn’t mind explaining it’s root a little as well?
MGT: I’m fairly sure it was Fred Smith that called me Machine Gun the first time. It was either Fred or Wayne. And the reason it came to be was that there’s a drumming rudiment called the single stroke roll. I used to play it REAL hard and REAL fast. The reason I had to play really hard back in those days because the rest of the boys in the band had these marshal stacks...you’re talking 200 watts. In those days PA systems were just for the vocalists, it didn’t light the drums up. So I had to develop a style like Keith Moon’s and Joe Butler’s to play really hard just to cut through the other music because there was a wall of sound. It was really loud. So I had to develop a style of playing that was hard, brutally hard. I used to have blood blisters and three blisters on one hand and four on the other. I would tape them up and whatever. I would break 15 sticks a set. Bottom line is, I developed...instead of using the second rudiment which is a double stroke roll which is the style Mitch Mitchell used. I reverted to the (attack style) single stroke style and I could play that roll really really fast. So someone says, “You sound like a machine gun.” So then it happened...Machinegun Thompson stuck.
THIRSTY: Are you still the Machinegun? Do you still have the speed?
MGT: I’m better now then I was then. I just finished five years on the road and I’m in great drumming shape. I’m in good physical shape. I go to the gym 3-4 times a week. So I still work out and I still practice. I’M READY TO GO PLAY.
THIRSTY: Well Dennis, it’s truly been a pleasure.
MGT: No, my pleasure Jarrod.
THIRSTY: This is why I do it, to talk to the people that laid down the groundwork and continue to keep on goin’.
MGT: Thank you very much, appreciate it buddy. Have a good day.
THIRSTY: Thank you sir.
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